Raising Atheist children.
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24-10-2013, 02:16 PM
RE: Raising Atheist children.
My biggest fear is not that being raised atheist will make my children have less morals than religious people, but that as they start going to school in a very religious small town they will be shunned and disliked by other kids. It sounds like you have done a great job with your kids. Being a single parent isn't easy. Would it be horribly wrong to just let my kids keep going to Sunday school until they are old enough to choose for themselves? I would just hate for them to have no friends in school or be the "freak". Maybe I should just move before August comes back around. I'm so sick of seeing flannel anyways.

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24-10-2013, 02:20 PM
RE: Raising Atheist children.
(24-10-2013 03:52 AM)sporehux Wrote:  Seen a few posts now where De converted have mentioned confusion
About their Children.And also some nasty theist fallacies.

My wife died in 2001 (weak catholic) been mostly a single dad (agnostic) since then, 2 daughters 2yr and 5yr at the time. 14 and 17 now.

In that time I just imparted my karma inspired morals, zero discipline, they feel bad when I'm upset and they stop
Fighting.
Turns out I did indirectly indoctrinate them in my attitude to religion (arguing with my theist visitors) and for that I feel a little guilty, but in comparison my daughters are both very kind and empathetic , don't see any issues with racism or gays. (Asian driver slurs a little. My fault).
All school reports have praised there politeness and empathy to others.
Compared to the several children of my theist friends they are angels.
Recently dropped my oldest off at a bus stop and she immediately rushed to help someone who had dropped a heap of papers, a few private Christian school girls were just ignoring it.

Side effects are they have very little tolerance for ghost and alien stories are a little harsh on their friends opinions of mysticism, tell me there's a scammer at the door when strangers knock.
Either have De converted all their online friends or have ended up only associated with agnostics/atheists.
Otherwise ordinary kids no different than church going friends kids.

Summary :they are at least as moral if not more (dads rose glasses) than other children. With zero Christian moral training or fear of the great sky pervert. My oldest just got into a cadetship in Aboriginal heath services because she wanted to help people who seemed to need it most.
(They lay drunk in innercity parks like hobos)

So you can understand maybe why I get mad when theists claim atheist cant have morals therefore must be immoral people.

Sorry for the length. A little self indulgent maybe .

That's kinda how my boys are 19 and 14). One understands a little about religion, the other truly hasn't a clue. They're both polite, helpful kids.

I think you're doing fine.


God is a concept by which we measure our pain -- John Lennon

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24-10-2013, 02:21 PM
RE: Raising Atheist children.
(24-10-2013 06:27 AM)excubitor Wrote:  Yes. Self indulgence. That is all it is. All you are trying to prove is I'm OK without God. You see these outward behaviours as a vindication that being atheistic is OK. If you are an atheist then what are you trying to improve? Who are you trying to impress? I will tell you. You are trying to impress God. Struck in my memory is a TV interview with Fred Hollows. Now Fred Hollows was the son of a pastor and he abandoned his faith and for the rest of his life devoted himself to the good works of healing the blind. Towards the end of his life the interviewer asked him a profound question. "Well Fred, when you die and you go to heaven and are at the throne of God how do you think God will view your great works?" A sneer came over Fred's face and he smirked "What do you think"?

Fred, even though he denied his faith revealed that he wanted to prove himself through good works without faith. MAJOR FAIL. God wants to see faith and good works. So if you think that you will obtain approval from God or from me because you have sweet girls then forget it. Without faith your good behaviour, good works are without merit.

On the flip side of this, Catholics also must beware. God is not a respecter of persons. If Catholics do evil, or shut up the heart of compassion which they should show to the suffering and poor, or neglect good works, even though they have faith it will be of no avail.

To be justified before God we need both. We need faith and we need works.
Do not judge yourself in comparison with other people, whether they appear to be religious or not. Compare yourself to Jesus Christ, the prophets, the patriarchs, the apostles, and the saints who are all approved by the church as individuals worthy of emulation.

You may not know any saints personally, but you have access to me who is by the grace of God a saint in making. Follow me therefore as I follow Christ and I will show you the way to find favour, approval and justification from the Great One God, Father Son and Holy Spirit.

Shoo fly! Just shoo.


God is a concept by which we measure our pain -- John Lennon

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24-10-2013, 02:21 PM
RE: Raising Atheist children.
(24-10-2013 03:52 AM)sporehux Wrote:  Seen a few posts now where De converted have mentioned confusion
About their Children.And also some nasty theist fallacies.

My wife died in 2001 (weak catholic) been mostly a single dad (agnostic) since then, 2 daughters 2yr and 5yr at the time. 14 and 17 now.

In that time I just imparted my karma inspired morals, zero discipline, they feel bad when I'm upset and they stop
Fighting.
Turns out I did indirectly indoctrinate them in my attitude to religion (arguing with my theist visitors) and for that I feel a little guilty, but in comparison my daughters are both very kind and empathetic , don't see any issues with racism or gays. (Asian driver slurs a little. My fault).
All school reports have praised there politeness and empathy to others.
Compared to the several children of my theist friends they are angels.
Recently dropped my oldest off at a bus stop and she immediately rushed to help someone who had dropped a heap of papers, a few private Christian school girls were just ignoring it.

Side effects are they have very little tolerance for ghost and alien stories are a little harsh on their friends opinions of mysticism, tell me there's a scammer at the door when strangers knock.
Either have De converted all their online friends or have ended up only associated with agnostics/atheists.
Otherwise ordinary kids no different than church going friends kids.

Summary :they are at least as moral if not more (dads rose glasses) than other children. With zero Christian moral training or fear of the great sky pervert. My oldest just got into a cadetship in Aboriginal heath services because she wanted to help people who seemed to need it most.
(They lay drunk in innercity parks like hobos)

So you can understand maybe why I get mad when theists claim atheist cant have morals therefore must be immoral people.

Sorry for the length. A little self indulgent maybe .

I understand your consternation. Consider, however, why some Christians might say so. Look at the ten commandments of Exodus 20, for example. How many of them can a moral or ethical atheist accomplish?

Can do:
*No adultery
*No murder
*Don't steal
*Don't lie
*Honor your parents

Won't do:
*No other gods save Yahweh
*No idols or graven images
*Don't misuse God's name
*Don't covet
*Don't profane God's sabbath

50% on most exams is a failing grade. An atheist can consider themselves moral/ethical/positivist but not moral in any kind of Christian sense. They don't pass the test.

Fortunately, Heaven is not a curve but a pass/fail exam, and one need only trust Christ to go.

Thanks for considering this paradigm with me.
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24-10-2013, 02:26 PM
RE: Raising Atheist children.
(24-10-2013 02:21 PM)PleaseJesus Wrote:  I understand your consternation. Consider, however, why some Christians might say so. Look at the ten commandments of Exodus 20, for example. How many of them can a moral or ethical atheist accomplish?

Can do:
*No adultery
*No murder
*Don't steal
*Don't lie
*Honor your parents

Won't do:
*No other gods save Yahweh
*No idols or graven images
*Don't misuse God's name
*Don't covet
*Don't profane God's sabbath

50% on most exams is a failing grade. An atheist can consider themselves moral/ethical/positivist but not moral in any kind of Christian sense. They don't pass the test.

Fortunately, Heaven is not a curve but a pass/fail exam, and one need only trust Christ to go.

Thanks for considering this paradigm with me.

You too...just fucking shoo.

You know there are a lot more commandments than just those pathetic 10. All of which you ignore, because they're too hard...and fucking Saul or tarsus said you don't have to...

Shoo fly.


God is a concept by which we measure our pain -- John Lennon

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24-10-2013, 02:30 PM
RE: Raising Atheist children.
(24-10-2013 02:16 PM)LostandInsecure Wrote:  My biggest fear is not that being raised atheist will make my children have less morals than religious people, but that as they start going to school in a very religious small town they will be shunned and disliked by other kids. It sounds like you have done a great job with your kids. Being a single parent isn't easy. Would it be horribly wrong to just let my kids keep going to Sunday school until they are old enough to choose for themselves? I would just hate for them to have no friends in school or be the "freak". Maybe I should just move before August comes back around. I'm so sick of seeing flannel anyways.

Recently i watched a lecture for the case of religion being tantamount to child abuse.
But I think their (your kids) social situation as you describe it would be primary concern.
Make sure your kids know the truth of the bible as a collection of oral stories / fables / historical events. but keep it to them selves as it can upset people to have their beliefs questioned.

Theism is to believe what other people claim, Atheism is to ask "why should I".
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24-10-2013, 02:34 PM
RE: Raising Atheist children.
(24-10-2013 02:21 PM)PleaseJesus Wrote:  
(24-10-2013 03:52 AM)sporehux Wrote:  Seen a few posts now where De converted have mentioned confusion
About their Children.And also some nasty theist fallacies.

My wife died in 2001 (weak catholic) been mostly a single dad (agnostic) since then, 2 daughters 2yr and 5yr at the time. 14 and 17 now.

In that time I just imparted my karma inspired morals, zero discipline, they feel bad when I'm upset and they stop
Fighting.
Turns out I did indirectly indoctrinate them in my attitude to religion (arguing with my theist visitors) and for that I feel a little guilty, but in comparison my daughters are both very kind and empathetic , don't see any issues with racism or gays. (Asian driver slurs a little. My fault).
All school reports have praised there politeness and empathy to others.
Compared to the several children of my theist friends they are angels.
Recently dropped my oldest off at a bus stop and she immediately rushed to help someone who had dropped a heap of papers, a few private Christian school girls were just ignoring it.

Side effects are they have very little tolerance for ghost and alien stories are a little harsh on their friends opinions of mysticism, tell me there's a scammer at the door when strangers knock.
Either have De converted all their online friends or have ended up only associated with agnostics/atheists.
Otherwise ordinary kids no different than church going friends kids.

Summary :they are at least as moral if not more (dads rose glasses) than other children. With zero Christian moral training or fear of the great sky pervert. My oldest just got into a cadetship in Aboriginal heath services because she wanted to help people who seemed to need it most.
(They lay drunk in innercity parks like hobos)

So you can understand maybe why I get mad when theists claim atheist cant have morals therefore must be immoral people.

Sorry for the length. A little self indulgent maybe .

I understand your consternation. Consider, however, why some Christians might say so. Look at the ten commandments of Exodus 20, for example. How many of them can a moral or ethical atheist accomplish?

Can do:
*No adultery
*No murder
*Don't steal
*Don't lie
*Honor your parents

Won't do:
*No other gods save Yahweh
*No idols or graven images
*Don't misuse God's name
*Don't covet
*Don't profane God's sabbath

50% on most exams is a failing grade. An atheist can consider themselves moral/ethical/positivist but not moral in any kind of Christian sense. They don't pass the test.

Fortunately, Heaven is not a curve but a pass/fail exam, and one need only trust Christ to go.

Thanks for considering this paradigm with me.
50% on the horrible excuse for a set of complete moral guidelines. 100% on morality.

"Religion has caused more misery to all of mankind in every stage of human history than any other single idea." --Madalyn Murray O'Hair
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24-10-2013, 02:34 PM
RE: Raising Atheist children.
That is great advice! Thanks. Somehow I never really thought of that. Kind of like Santa! They know Santa is not real, but they know not to tell other people because some people believe in him and we don't want to hurt their feelings.

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Swing with me forever, we can count up every flower, we can weather every storm.
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24-10-2013, 02:57 PM
RE: Raising Atheist children.
Quote: PJ Said - but not moral in any kind of Christian sense.

and for this, I'm grateful. Your morality disgusts me, and so does your slave mentality and ethos.

"slaves, obey your masters." This is your christian morality in action. A slave mentality.

The only correct answer to this babble statement is FUCK YOU, I will NOT obey.

Don't sell yourself short Judge, you're an incredible slouch.

Martin Luther was the "father" of two movements - The Reformation and Nazism.
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24-10-2013, 03:19 PM
RE: Raising Atheist children.
(24-10-2013 02:21 PM)PleaseJesus Wrote:  
(24-10-2013 03:52 AM)sporehux Wrote:  Seen a few posts now where De converted have mentioned confusion
About their Children.And also some nasty theist fallacies.

My wife died in 2001 (weak catholic) been mostly a single dad (agnostic) since then, 2 daughters 2yr and 5yr at the time. 14 and 17 now.

In that time I just imparted my karma inspired morals, zero discipline, they feel bad when I'm upset and they stop
Fighting.
Turns out I did indirectly indoctrinate them in my attitude to religion (arguing with my theist visitors) and for that I feel a little guilty, but in comparison my daughters are both very kind and empathetic , don't see any issues with racism or gays. (Asian driver slurs a little. My fault).
All school reports have praised there politeness and empathy to others.
Compared to the several children of my theist friends they are angels.
Recently dropped my oldest off at a bus stop and she immediately rushed to help someone who had dropped a heap of papers, a few private Christian school girls were just ignoring it.

Side effects are they have very little tolerance for ghost and alien stories are a little harsh on their friends opinions of mysticism, tell me there's a scammer at the door when strangers knock.
Either have De converted all their online friends or have ended up only associated with agnostics/atheists.
Otherwise ordinary kids no different than church going friends kids.

Summary :they are at least as moral if not more (dads rose glasses) than other children. With zero Christian moral training or fear of the great sky pervert. My oldest just got into a cadetship in Aboriginal heath services because she wanted to help people who seemed to need it most.
(They lay drunk in innercity parks like hobos)

So you can understand maybe why I get mad when theists claim atheist cant have morals therefore must be immoral people.

Sorry for the length. A little self indulgent maybe .

I understand your consternation. Consider, however, why some Christians might say so. Look at the ten commandments of Exodus 20, for example. How many of them can a moral or ethical atheist accomplish?

Can do:
*No adultery
*No murder
*Don't steal
*Don't lie
*Honor your parents

Won't do:
*No other gods save Yahweh
*No idols or graven images
*Don't misuse God's name
*Don't covet
*Don't profane God's sabbath

50% on most exams is a failing grade. An atheist can consider themselves moral/ethical/positivist but not moral in any kind of Christian sense. They don't pass the test.

Fortunately, Heaven is not a curve but a pass/fail exam, and one need only trust Christ to go.

Thanks for considering this paradigm with me.

Uh, wait, what?

Let's see.

I DON'T use God's name in vain. Or at all. I don't even know what the name is. I've heard one version starting with a Y but which can't properly be pronounced because I don't know the vowels, and another with a J and another with an A and I don't really use any of those.

I don't carve or worship idols or engraved images.

I don't worship any gods other than the one in the Bible. (I don't worship that one either, but that's not the commandment.)

I don't work on Sundays. YAY WEEKENDS!

.... um, that gets me up to full marks, right? Not that I really care, I just hate to see someone's math so very, very off.
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