Raising Minimum Wage - or How to Keep the Poor, Poor.
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28-07-2015, 08:25 PM
RE: Raising Minimum Wage - or How to Keep the Poor, Poor.
(28-07-2015 08:22 PM)Stevil Wrote:  
(23-07-2015 05:43 AM)onlinebiker Wrote:  If you're one of those people chanting and ranting and cheering on raising the minimum wage
I'm no economist, but I would think that artificially raising costs means that certain jobs become untenable therefore many "unskilled" people miss out on work. Also, with higher costs, certain businesses become untenable so they shut down and more people lose their jobs. It also gives employers higher incentives to seek automation or offshore resources and hence more jobs are lost.

Raising the minimum wage results in less local job opportunities, which drives up the unemployment benefit burden on public funds and also reduces tax revenue.
Poor "unskilled" people find it harder and harder to find jobs, harder to fund their kids through school, less motivation, higher dependency on handouts...

Except that never happens. Anywhere minimum wage is applied that result has never once been show to occur.

(31-07-2014 04:37 PM)Luminon Wrote:  America is full of guns, but they're useless, because nobody has the courage to shoot an IRS agent in self-defense
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28-07-2015, 08:31 PM
RE: Raising Minimum Wage - or How to Keep the Poor, Poor.
(23-07-2015 12:35 PM)Revenant77x Wrote:  
(23-07-2015 12:19 PM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  Please stop straw manning my position by grossly oversimplifying and reducing it.

He can't, that would mean he would have to know what the fuck he was talking about something Onlinebiker has never show the ability to do.

That's harsh and uncalled for. For Pete's sake Rev...what's with you lately? You have become unpleasant and rather mean.

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28-07-2015, 08:36 PM
RE: Raising Minimum Wage - or How to Keep the Poor, Poor.
(28-07-2015 08:31 PM)Anjele Wrote:  
(23-07-2015 12:35 PM)Revenant77x Wrote:  He can't, that would mean he would have to know what the fuck he was talking about something Onlinebiker has never show the ability to do.

That's harsh and uncalled for. For Pete's sake Rev...what's with you lately? You have become unpleasant and rather mean.

I am always short with people that do nothing but cause trouble. OLB is no different than any number of trolls that like to stir the shit he just has his fans that same as Taq did.

(31-07-2014 04:37 PM)Luminon Wrote:  America is full of guns, but they're useless, because nobody has the courage to shoot an IRS agent in self-defense
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28-07-2015, 08:41 PM
RE: Raising Minimum Wage - or How to Keep the Poor, Poor.
(28-07-2015 08:25 PM)Revenant77x Wrote:  Except that never happens. Anywhere minimum wage is applied that result has never once been show to occur.
I work with offshore people all the time. We use them because their wages are much cheaper than local resource. I also work at automating functions. It generally goes into a business case, the cost of developing the automation vs the cost of ongoing labour, in order to justify the project they plan to let people go.
Have you ever been to poor countries? I've been to a few, seen people with jobs of opening and closing doors etc, seen people with very menial jobs that in developed countries would be automated. Over there they give people those jobs because wages are cheaper than automation.
How do you come to the conclusion that high wages doesn't equate to less job opportunities?
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28-07-2015, 08:45 PM
RE: Raising Minimum Wage - or How to Keep the Poor, Poor.
(28-07-2015 08:36 PM)Revenant77x Wrote:  
(28-07-2015 08:31 PM)Anjele Wrote:  That's harsh and uncalled for. For Pete's sake Rev...what's with you lately? You have become unpleasant and rather mean.

I am always short with people that do nothing but cause trouble. OLB is no different than any number of trolls that like to stir the shit he just has his fans that same as Taq did.

He's been ugly in this thread, no doubt, but isn't addressing his points a better way of handling things?
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28-07-2015, 08:49 PM
RE: Raising Minimum Wage - or How to Keep the Poor, Poor.
(28-07-2015 08:41 PM)Stevil Wrote:  
(28-07-2015 08:25 PM)Revenant77x Wrote:  Except that never happens. Anywhere minimum wage is applied that result has never once been show to occur.
I work with offshore people all the time. We use them because their wages are much cheaper than local resource. I also work at automating functions. It generally goes into a business case, the cost of developing the automation vs the cost of ongoing labour, in order to justify the project they plan to let people go.
Have you ever been to poor countries? I've been to a few, seen people with jobs of opening and closing doors etc, seen people with very menial jobs that in developed countries would be automated. Over there they give people those jobs because wages are cheaper than automation.
How do you come to the conclusion that high wages doesn't equate to less job opportunities?

Because in context I am not talking about a third world sweatshop but one of the wealthiest nations on the planet. If you had read the thread you would know that is what the discussion is about so had you wished to insert points made about the third world you need to highlight them.

(31-07-2014 04:37 PM)Luminon Wrote:  America is full of guns, but they're useless, because nobody has the courage to shoot an IRS agent in self-defense
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28-07-2015, 08:51 PM
RE: Raising Minimum Wage - or How to Keep the Poor, Poor.
(28-07-2015 08:45 PM)Thumpalumpacus Wrote:  
(28-07-2015 08:36 PM)Revenant77x Wrote:  I am always short with people that do nothing but cause trouble. OLB is no different than any number of trolls that like to stir the shit he just has his fans that same as Taq did.

He's been ugly in this thread, no doubt, but isn't addressing his points a better way of handling things?

No because it does absolutely no good with him. He neither has an understanding of the issue or the desire to gain one he just wants to fight on the internet and call people stupid liberals. Which is why most of the time I just ignore his posts as they have little to nothing of merit.

(31-07-2014 04:37 PM)Luminon Wrote:  America is full of guns, but they're useless, because nobody has the courage to shoot an IRS agent in self-defense
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28-07-2015, 08:53 PM
RE: Raising Minimum Wage - or How to Keep the Poor, Poor.
I find it interesting how years ago men were the primary wage earners that provided pretty much most of a household income. Sure there were some women who worked but mostly women stayed at home and looked after their children.

Fast forward to today and you have both parents working to pay for the basics of life. If you want extra or in your case in america you want your kids to go to college you have to work extra jobs.... so whats changed?

We have the minimum wage here in the UK. We also have the living wage and the conservatives who sadly are running the show here for the next 5 years, consider it an achievement that they wish to implement a living wage of around £9 per hour. Not £9 per hour now.... but in 5 years time. Which to me means fuck all.

The very fact that there is something called the living wage is a mockery of the minimum wage. It states that the minimun wage is not actually enough to live off, to pay the basics of life and have a standard of living where people have self respect by being able to pay their own way.

Raise the minimum wage, it will happen im sure. I guess that it will push a lot of smaller businesses to breaking point. Then the multinational, tax evading and government subsidised corporations can pick up the slack and just get bigger and more bloated by having a bigger slice of the pie.

Let the people believe they are getting a pay rise, it wont match inflation though. Much like the trillions of under/unfunded pension schemes many of us wil possibly rely on when we retire.

The whole world wide banking system and economy is a massive ponzi scheme where the rich continue to get richer. It comes at a cost though. The cost is on the average person.

There is no "economic recovery". Ive posted enough information in my thread of the same title and I can easily post much more but whats the point? Ive stacked and continue to stack gold and silver, ive made preperations and im ready. The worst that can happen is I wont need them, but I believe I will.

Good luck Thumbsup

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I am the wind, in the fields in which I roar. I am the water, in which I drown.
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28-07-2015, 08:55 PM
RE: Raising Minimum Wage - or How to Keep the Poor, Poor.
(28-07-2015 08:49 PM)Revenant77x Wrote:  
(28-07-2015 08:41 PM)Stevil Wrote:  I work with offshore people all the time. We use them because their wages are much cheaper than local resource. I also work at automating functions. It generally goes into a business case, the cost of developing the automation vs the cost of ongoing labour, in order to justify the project they plan to let people go.
Have you ever been to poor countries? I've been to a few, seen people with jobs of opening and closing doors etc, seen people with very menial jobs that in developed countries would be automated. Over there they give people those jobs because wages are cheaper than automation.
How do you come to the conclusion that high wages doesn't equate to less job opportunities?

Because in context I am not talking about a third world sweatshop but one of the wealthiest nations on the planet. If you had read the thread you would know that is what the discussion is about so had you wished to insert points made about the third world you need to highlight them.
I'm talking about developed nations too.
Jobs go offshore, jobs get lost due to automation, various jobs and businesses become unviable.
There are obvious consequences to raising the cost of labour.
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28-07-2015, 09:02 PM
RE: Raising Minimum Wage - or How to Keep the Poor, Poor.
(28-07-2015 08:55 PM)Stevil Wrote:  
(28-07-2015 08:49 PM)Revenant77x Wrote:  Because in context I am not talking about a third world sweatshop but one of the wealthiest nations on the planet. If you had read the thread you would know that is what the discussion is about so had you wished to insert points made about the third world you need to highlight them.
I'm talking about developed nations too.
Jobs go offshore, jobs get lost due to automation, various jobs and businesses become unviable.
There are obvious consequences to raising the cost of labour.

To some degree but that has been happening at an alarming rate for the last 30 years when top down economics has been in full employ. Trying to improve wages is not a death knell to any economy but continuing on as we are now is.

(31-07-2014 04:37 PM)Luminon Wrote:  America is full of guns, but they're useless, because nobody has the courage to shoot an IRS agent in self-defense
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