Raising Minimum Wage - or How to Keep the Poor, Poor.
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29-07-2015, 10:17 AM
RE: Raising Minimum Wage - or How to Keep the Poor, Poor.
(29-07-2015 10:10 AM)Revenant77x Wrote:  
(29-07-2015 10:07 AM)TheBear Wrote:  Exactly.

What I'm pointing out is the ripple effect of mandatory minimum wage increases. It doesn't just affect new hire wages. It affects the wages of everyone in the company. If not, morale plummets and employee turnover rate skyrockets, especially those who have been with the company for some time.

and that forces veteran pay up. It is incredibly expensive to replace people with 5-10 years experience so if they have no pressure to stay in a job that obviously does not value them, by keeping their pay stagnant while new hire pay is increased to their level, they no longer have an incentive not to leave. If you can go anywhere and make the same money you hold way more leverage if you have skills that are in demand.

You get no disagreement from me there.
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29-07-2015, 10:19 AM
RE: Raising Minimum Wage - or How to Keep the Poor, Poor.
(29-07-2015 10:17 AM)TheBear Wrote:  
(29-07-2015 10:10 AM)Revenant77x Wrote:  and that forces veteran pay up. It is incredibly expensive to replace people with 5-10 years experience so if they have no pressure to stay in a job that obviously does not value them, by keeping their pay stagnant while new hire pay is increased to their level, they no longer have an incentive not to leave. If you can go anywhere and make the same money you hold way more leverage if you have skills that are in demand.

You get no disagreement from me there.

Then you should support a transition towards minimum wage being closer to a living wage. That provides an employment market where everyone has more choices for where to work and more leverage for better pay.

Being nice is something stupid people do to hedge their bets
-Rick
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29-07-2015, 10:22 AM
RE: Raising Minimum Wage - or How to Keep the Poor, Poor.
If even veteran and experienced workers (who are supposedly "highly valued" by the company) are not actually being paid what they are worth (if even they are not making what would equate to a living wage), then the company doesn't value them as anything other than a cog in the machine.

Being nice is something stupid people do to hedge their bets
-Rick
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29-07-2015, 11:02 AM
RE: Raising Minimum Wage - or How to Keep the Poor, Poor.
(29-07-2015 10:17 AM)TheBear Wrote:  
(29-07-2015 10:10 AM)Revenant77x Wrote:  and that forces veteran pay up. It is incredibly expensive to replace people with 5-10 years experience so if they have no pressure to stay in a job that obviously does not value them, by keeping their pay stagnant while new hire pay is increased to their level, they no longer have an incentive not to leave. If you can go anywhere and make the same money you hold way more leverage if you have skills that are in demand.

You get no disagreement from me there.

That is the baseline theory behind "Bottom Up" economics (as opposed to the republicans favorite fantasy trickle down) as you increase the minimum up to levels that are livable it increases employee leverage. If going to a new job does not mean economic ruin it means when you are negotiating for a pay increase you can always walk out, if you can't then you are effectively a wage slave and have to take whatever scraps the company will throw at you.

This also has a huge economic impact on the local level as lower and middle class people spend their money locally. If you give a raise to someone living paycheck to paycheck they will save some but most of that increase will go right back into the local economy improving everyone's outlook. If you give billionares a huge tax break that money all gets sent overseas to sit in non-taxable savings accounts.

(31-07-2014 04:37 PM)Luminon Wrote:  America is full of guns, but they're useless, because nobody has the courage to shoot an IRS agent in self-defense
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29-07-2015, 12:50 PM
RE: Raising Minimum Wage - or How to Keep the Poor, Poor.
(29-07-2015 05:56 AM)onlinebiker Wrote:  Automation will still require human operators. CNC machines don't run themselves - somebody still has to operate, diagnose problems and fix them. Those people just have higher degrees of training.

These tasks are also all being automated. But lets assume they are never completely automated. How many people will need to be employed to do those jobs? Not very many. The vast majority of humans will be unemployable.

Here is a video of a robot you can buy for around $30K. This is a general purpose robot that can do a wide variety of task and is very easy to program. Why hire a human and pay minimum wage when this robot will do the same work for less?





What happens in 10 years when this robot only cost $10K and is 2x more capable?
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29-07-2015, 01:42 PM
RE: Raising Minimum Wage - or How to Keep the Poor, Poor.
(29-07-2015 09:16 AM)Revenant77x Wrote:  This is why unions are important.
Unions cripple an economy. They plunder a business into bankruptcy then everyone loses their jobs.

If you don't like your job, negotiate with your boss, if they don't play ball, then leave.
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29-07-2015, 01:45 PM
RE: Raising Minimum Wage - or How to Keep the Poor, Poor.
(29-07-2015 05:56 AM)onlinebiker Wrote:  Automation will still require human operators. CNC machines don't run themselves - somebody still has to operate, diagnose problems and fix them. Those people just have higher degrees of training.

All automation does is take the drudgery out of repetitious tasks, and makes better products at cheaper prices.
Absolutely do people lose their jobs with automation.
If it required more skilled workers i.e. higher paid workers then no one would automate.
They automate so that they can get labour costs down.
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29-07-2015, 01:50 PM
RE: Raising Minimum Wage - or How to Keep the Poor, Poor.
The history of the human race now the past and future.

NOTE: Member, Tomasia uses this site to slander other individuals. He then later proclaims it a joke, but not in public.
I will call him a liar and a dog here and now.
Banjo.
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29-07-2015, 01:51 PM
RE: Raising Minimum Wage - or How to Keep the Poor, Poor.
(29-07-2015 01:42 PM)Stevil Wrote:  
(29-07-2015 09:16 AM)Revenant77x Wrote:  This is why unions are important.
Unions cripple an economy. They plunder a business into bankruptcy then everyone loses their jobs.

If you don't like your job, negotiate with your boss, if they don't play ball, then leave.

Do what? Can you back up that claim with any actual data or is this an assumption?

(because unions and the automotive industry are why it boomed, even grad students are organizing into unions and the universities are not becoming crippled, etc, etc)

Unions provide a buffer between employees and companies by having more negotiating power than any single employee, not only for wages but benefits and working conditions, etc.

Being nice is something stupid people do to hedge their bets
-Rick
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29-07-2015, 01:51 PM
RE: Raising Minimum Wage - or How to Keep the Poor, Poor.
(29-07-2015 01:50 PM)Banjo Wrote:  The history of the human race now the past and future.

NOTE: Member, Tomasia uses this site to slander other individuals. He then later proclaims it a joke, but not in public.
I will call him a liar and a dog here and now.
Banjo.
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