Raising Minimum Wage - or How to Keep the Poor, Poor.
Post Reply
 
Thread Rating:
  • 0 Votes - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
29-07-2015, 04:15 PM
RE: Raising Minimum Wage - or How to Keep the Poor, Poor.
(29-07-2015 03:36 PM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  
(29-07-2015 03:30 PM)onlinebiker Wrote:  You're the one making the outrageous claims -- like religion -- the burden of proof is on YOU ...

Show how unions are HELPING people these days....

(exempt of course are the Union muckety mucks, who make their living by taking part of YOUR paycheck.. they don't count as "people"..)

....

Which leads to the question -- are you the shop steward for your local?????

cuz I'm really getting a whiff of that stank...............

Anyone else doubt he is a troll?


Actually I find online biker honest and direct. I do not always agree with him, but I always respect his views.

NOTE: Member, Tomasia uses this site to slander other individuals. He then later proclaims it a joke, but not in public.
I will call him a liar and a dog here and now.
Banjo.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 3 users Like Banjo's post
29-07-2015, 04:16 PM
Raising Minimum Wage - or How to Keep the Poor, Poor.
(29-07-2015 04:15 PM)Banjo Wrote:  
(29-07-2015 03:36 PM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  Anyone else doubt he is a troll?


Actually I find online biker honest and direct. I do not always agree with him, but I always respect his views.

You've read this thread and still think that?

Being nice is something stupid people do to hedge their bets
-Rick
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
29-07-2015, 05:04 PM
RE: Raising Minimum Wage - or How to Keep the Poor, Poor.
(29-07-2015 04:16 PM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  
(29-07-2015 04:15 PM)Banjo Wrote:  Actually I find online biker honest and direct. I do not always agree with him, but I always respect his views.

You've read this thread and still think that?

I do. I'm suspicious of unions. They had their salad days, but unless we're talking about industries like mining, they've outlived most of their utility. Look at how union health-care benefits bankrupted GM here in America, saddling a company with backbreaking obligations.

There are certainly places where unionization is appropriate, but don't for a moment think that they are utterly beneficent. There's a very fine line between workers' benefits and cutting it open to get the golden egg right now. And too often, unions overstep the line.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes Thumpalumpacus's post
29-07-2015, 05:05 PM
Raising Minimum Wage - or How to Keep the Poor, Poor.
Why unions matter and pros and cons

http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0912/80571.html

http://www.bankrate.com/finance/personal...obs-2.aspx

Being nice is something stupid people do to hedge their bets
-Rick
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
29-07-2015, 05:06 PM
Raising Minimum Wage - or How to Keep the Poor, Poor.
(29-07-2015 05:04 PM)Thumpalumpacus Wrote:  
(29-07-2015 04:16 PM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  You've read this thread and still think that?

I do. I'm suspicious of unions. They had their salad days, but unless we're talking about industries like mining, they've outlived most of their utility. Look at how union health-care benefits bankrupted GM here in America, saddling a company with backbreaking obligations.

There are certainly places where unionization is appropriate, but don't for a moment think that they are utterly beneficent. There's a very fine line between workers' benefits and cutting it open to get the golden egg right now. And too often, unions overstep the line.

I don't think it's a coincidence that the disappearance of the middle class corresponds to the reduction in unionization rates.

And I'm not saying all jobs and places of employment need unions, but low wage workers seem to need them since no one else wants to fight for them.

Being nice is something stupid people do to hedge their bets
-Rick
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes TheBeardedDude's post
29-07-2015, 05:16 PM
RE: Raising Minimum Wage - or How to Keep the Poor, Poor.
(29-07-2015 04:02 PM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  Yeah, I've looked up info on unions and I've never encountered ANYTHING that corroborates your claim. In fact, I've found only information that is more typically the exact opposite.
Well, there you go then.
(29-07-2015 04:02 PM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  And no, I'm NOT saying that unions fix everything nor am I saying that there don't become drawbacks for some employees, but I've never seen a situation where the costs outweighed the benefits.
Great, you are a supporter of unions then.
I'm not, but that's me, I have given my reasons.
(29-07-2015 04:02 PM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  Your friends takes initiative, great. Good for him. Nothing about that story indicates that unions are bad.
I'm not saying they are bad.
Just not in tune with economics and business and value of labour i.e. (supply and demand)
And potentially crippling to businesses and economies.
(29-07-2015 04:02 PM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  At best, it demonstrates that sometimes unions have procedures that don't always work as they may be intended
Well, it depends on what you mean by "intended"
Unions do very well for themselves. Their bosses are very highly paid. They may leave a wake of failed businesses and even industries but that is by the by, their intent "as a business themselves" is to be profitable, and they are.

(29-07-2015 04:02 PM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  As for the Hobbit example, the fact that some unions do bad things, doesn't mean all unions do or that all unions are bad. You're argument in this case would be the equivalent of "the Chinese government really screws it's people over by controlling so much of their lives while having such lax environmental policies. See? Governments are all bad."
I've never said anything was bad.
If you asked me what I thought of "socialist" or "communist" policies then I would tell you that I prefer "capitalism" with its emphasis on competition and supply and demand.
If you asked me if I thought businesses are greedy and evil, I would tell you that businesses are the life's blood of an economy.
If you asked me how we should deal with poverty, I would say we need to focus on a thriving economy, make it easy for quality businesses to thrive (incentives for businesses, saftey nets for quality businesses) which leads to employment and financial spend.
If you asked me how can we keep the poor people poor, I would say by giving them hand outs, reducing their incentive to work, by stimying businesses (demanding they give handouts to staff). By heavily taxing businesses or by demanding they share profits with all staff. By increasing business costs i.e. increasing minimum wage. By supporting strong and heavy handed unions.
If you asked me how do we address the inequality of wealth distribution. I'd say by providing free quality education. Strongly encourage people (especially kids) to focus on education rather than worry about being labelled a nerd, or hoping to be a sports star, or being worried about their social status, or being too busy playing computer games or hanging out at the mall. Stimulate businesses which will create jobs. Encourage people and businesses to expand and succeed by not implementing heavy taxes. Perhaps invest in start up businesses and industries. By including financial skills and parenting skills in school education system. By educating adults with regards to managing finances and parenting techniques.

But then again I am no expert. These are my thoughts and I could be wrong.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes Stevil's post
29-07-2015, 05:17 PM
Raising Minimum Wage - or How to Keep the Poor, Poor.
(29-07-2015 05:16 PM)Stevil Wrote:  
(29-07-2015 04:02 PM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  Yeah, I've looked up info on unions and I've never encountered ANYTHING that corroborates your claim. In fact, I've found only information that is more typically the exact opposite.
Well, there you go then.
(29-07-2015 04:02 PM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  And no, I'm NOT saying that unions fix everything nor am I saying that there don't become drawbacks for some employees, but I've never seen a situation where the costs outweighed the benefits.
Great, you are a supporter of unions then.
I'm not, but that's me, I have given my reasons.
(29-07-2015 04:02 PM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  Your friends takes initiative, great. Good for him. Nothing about that story indicates that unions are bad.
I'm not saying they are bad.
Just not in tune with economics and business and value of labour i.e. (supply and demand)
And potentially crippling to businesses and economies.
(29-07-2015 04:02 PM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  At best, it demonstrates that sometimes unions have procedures that don't always work as they may be intended
Well, it depends on what you mean by "intended"
Unions do very well for themselves. Their bosses are very highly paid. They may leave a wake of failed businesses and even industries but that is by the by, their intent "as a business themselves" is to be profitable, and they are.

(29-07-2015 04:02 PM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  As for the Hobbit example, the fact that some unions do bad things, doesn't mean all unions do or that all unions are bad. You're argument in this case would be the equivalent of "the Chinese government really screws it's people over by controlling so much of their lives while having such lax environmental policies. See? Governments are all bad."
I've never said anything was bad.
If you asked me what I thought of "socialist" or "communist" policies then I would tell you that I prefer "capitalism" with its emphasis on competition and supply and demand.
If you asked me if I thought businesses are greedy and evil, I would tell you that businesses are the life's blood of an economy.
If you asked me how we should deal with poverty, I would say we need to focus on a thriving economy, make it easy for quality businesses to thrive (incentives for businesses, saftey nets for quality businesses) which leads to employment and financial spend.
If you asked me how can we keep the poor people poor, I would say by giving them hand outs, reducing their incentive to work, by stimying businesses (demanding they give handouts to staff). By heavily taxing businesses or by demanding they share profits with all staff. By increasing business costs i.e. increasing minimum wage. By supporting strong and heavy handed unions.
If you asked me how do we address the inequality of wealth distribution. I'd say by providing free quality education. Strongly encourage people (especially kids) to focus on education rather than worry about being labelled a nerd, or hoping to be a sports star, or being worried about their social status, or being too busy playing computer games or hanging out at the mall. Stimulate businesses which will create jobs. Encourage people and businesses to expand and succeed by not implementing heavy taxes. Perhaps invest in start up businesses and industries. By including financial skills and parenting skills in school education system. By educating adults with regards to managing finances and parenting techniques.

But then again I am no expert. These are my thoughts and I could be wrong.

You don't think they are bad, but you think they are "not in tune with the economy" (whatever that means) and are "crippling to economies?"

Please stop talking out of both sides of your mouth.

Being nice is something stupid people do to hedge their bets
-Rick
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
29-07-2015, 05:19 PM
Raising Minimum Wage - or How to Keep the Poor, Poor.
The purpose of bringing up unions is in part because of how they can help with base pay and help keep wages in line with inflation through negotiation.

If you don't like them, fine. But give them credit for the 5 day work week. Paid time off. Safe working conditions. Etc

Being nice is something stupid people do to hedge their bets
-Rick
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
29-07-2015, 05:20 PM
RE: Raising Minimum Wage - or How to Keep the Poor, Poor.
Quote:If you asked me what I thought of "socialist" or "communist" policies then I would tell you that I prefer "capitalism" with its emphasis on competition and supply and demand.

You can be socialist and capitalist. You live in such a country actually.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes earmuffs's post
29-07-2015, 05:22 PM
RE: Raising Minimum Wage - or How to Keep the Poor, Poor.
(29-07-2015 04:16 PM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  
(29-07-2015 04:15 PM)Banjo Wrote:  Actually I find online biker honest and direct. I do not always agree with him, but I always respect his views.

You've read this thread and still think that?


Without unions we'd be back to patrians and plebs before you could say slave. Look at the world. Not your individual country. I find your views narrow, naive, over confident and disrespectul of your competitors. America is being surpassed by better educated people in Europe and Asia. Your education system even has ID. You need unions to support a lifestyle. Think of it like climate and weather. The former sustains. The latter gives a nice weekend.

NOTE: Member, Tomasia uses this site to slander other individuals. He then later proclaims it a joke, but not in public.
I will call him a liar and a dog here and now.
Banjo.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes Banjo's post
Post Reply
Forum Jump: