Raising Minimum Wage - or How to Keep the Poor, Poor.
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29-07-2015, 07:03 PM
RE: Raising Minimum Wage - or How to Keep the Poor, Poor.
Oh and please forgive my fingers a lookin' away and forgive my typos. The body is not itself today. And all I wanted to point out olb is no trolls. I used to administer a site like this, but we got 6 million hits per month. I know my trolls.

NOTE: Member, Tomasia uses this site to slander other individuals. He then later proclaims it a joke, but not in public.
I will call him a liar and a dog here and now.
Banjo.
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29-07-2015, 07:07 PM
RE: Raising Minimum Wage - or How to Keep the Poor, Poor.
(29-07-2015 07:03 PM)Banjo Wrote:  Oh and please forgive my fingers a lookin' away and forgive my typos. The body is not itself today. And all I wanted to point out olb is no trolls. I used to administer a site like this, but we got 6 million hits per month. I know my trolls.

I would respectfully disagree. He refuses to look at anything not agreeing with his stance acts like a coward and a bully when confronted. He is a classic troll he just has his fans. He reminds me of nobody more than Taq.

(31-07-2014 04:37 PM)Luminon Wrote:  America is full of guns, but they're useless, because nobody has the courage to shoot an IRS agent in self-defense
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29-07-2015, 07:21 PM
RE: Raising Minimum Wage - or How to Keep the Poor, Poor.
Put like that, I can respect your opinion. We can agree to disagree. Unless we're talking about my fingers.

Oh and from personal experience, one has had no fans until you've signed 10.000+ autographs. I am no fan of anyone here. I have friends.

In the real world I have signed many autographs. If anyone is here for fans, give it up.

NOTE: Member, Tomasia uses this site to slander other individuals. He then later proclaims it a joke, but not in public.
I will call him a liar and a dog here and now.
Banjo.
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29-07-2015, 08:38 PM
RE: Raising Minimum Wage - or How to Keep the Poor, Poor.
(29-07-2015 06:48 PM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  I don't want to live in a world that is so capricious where those at the top get to treat everyone else the way they want or give them the scraps off of their plate.
That's a very exaggerated and dramatic view.
(29-07-2015 06:48 PM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  Americans aren't better off with companies that dodge taxes, ship jobs overseas, park money in offshore tax havens, lobby to write laws with loopholes to exploit, or pay people so little that they have no options.
That's the thing, people complain about the poverty in developing nations, thinking that the developed nations ought to do more to support them. But then when jobs are offshored to these nations then people either complain about use of "sweatshops" or that local jobs are lost to foriegn nations. People will complain which ever way you go.
Regarding "pay people so little", well, people get paid what they are worth on the competitive market. If people pick up "in demand" skills then their worth goes up.
(29-07-2015 06:48 PM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  If they could pay them any less, they would.
Sure. Do you shop around? Do you get quotes from suppliers? Do you negatiate on price? Do you try and get the highest price when you sell something? Do you try to get a high salary/wage for yourself? Is any of this unethical?
(29-07-2015 06:48 PM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  Is that a world you want to live in? A world where the corporations and the rich decide every one else's worth?
It's market forces (supply and demand) that determines worth (in terms of salary/wage). If you get a better education then your salary/wage worth goes up. It is you who decides what you are worth by the effort you put into developing yourself and your marketability.
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29-07-2015, 08:39 PM
Raising Minimum Wage - or How to Keep the Poor, Poor.
(29-07-2015 08:38 PM)Stevil Wrote:  
(29-07-2015 06:48 PM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  I don't want to live in a world that is so capricious where those at the top get to treat everyone else the way they want or give them the scraps off of their plate.
That's a very exaggerated and dramatic view.
(29-07-2015 06:48 PM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  Americans aren't better off with companies that dodge taxes, ship jobs overseas, park money in offshore tax havens, lobby to write laws with loopholes to exploit, or pay people so little that they have no options.
That's the thing, people complain about the poverty in developing nations, thinking that the developed nations ought to do more to support them. But then when jobs are offshored to these nations then people either complain about use of "sweatshops" or that local jobs are lost to foriegn nations. People will complain which ever way you go.
Regarding "pay people so little", well, people get paid what they are worth on the competitive market. If people pick up "in demand" skills then their worth goes up.
(29-07-2015 06:48 PM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  If they could pay them any less, they would.
Sure. Do you shop around? Do you get quotes from suppliers? Do you negatiate on price? Do you try and get the highest price when you sell something? Do you try to get a high salary/wage for yourself? Is any of this unethical?
(29-07-2015 06:48 PM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  Is that a world you want to live in? A world where the corporations and the rich decide every one else's worth?
It's market forces (supply and demand) that determines worth (in terms of salary/wage). If you get a better education then your salary/wage worth goes up. It is you who decides what you are worth by the effort you put into developing yourself and your marketability.

It's only an exaggerated view if you don't study history.

Being nice is something stupid people do to hedge their bets
-Rick
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29-07-2015, 09:04 PM
RE: Raising Minimum Wage - or How to Keep the Poor, Poor.
Irrelevant of the fact that the lesser intelligent ape threw his poo first,
and irrelevant of the fact that the action of the highly intelligent ape catching said poo & throwing it right back could be considered even more sad than the action that initially caused the turd to take flight,
a poo fight has begun!

After a poo slinging fight, all the apes smell like ape shit! Tongue

Minimum wage should be enough to provide a singular person with enough money to buy food, clothing, shelter, a form of transportation to carry the employee to work (if public transportation is unavailable in that area), and a tiny bit extra for saving if the employee so wishes. But all an employer should be obligated to pay (as far as wages are concerned) ends there!

Want an iPhone? Tough. Skype is free! Want a better looking car than that ugly brown jalopy you're riding in? Tough. It's reliable; you want a pretty car, get a better job. Don't make enough money at this lowest of all paying jobs to take care of your kid? Try not dropping one out you know you won't have the money to feed.

I agree with the side that wants the minimum wage to increase, but it has to have limits! I get nauseous when hearing anything about big corporations, but even I can't blame Walmart for some folk's dumb decisions!

Question! Would a law stating that any for profit entity wishing to do so must pay/provide ( X ) for the privilege of exploiting the buying power of the U.S. citizenry, be fair? X can be... whatever. Just pipe dreaming Tongue don't wanna turn this into an anti-multi-inter-national-corporation rant.

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29-07-2015, 09:12 PM
Raising Minimum Wage - or How to Keep the Poor, Poor.
(29-07-2015 09:04 PM)TheGulegon Wrote:  
Irrelevant of the fact that the lesser intelligent ape threw his poo first,
and irrelevant of the fact that the action of the highly intelligent ape catching said poo & throwing it right back could be considered even more sad than the action that initially caused the turd to take flight,
a poo fight has begun!

After a poo slinging fight, all the apes smell like ape shit! Tongue

Minimum wage should be enough to provide a singular person with enough money to buy food, clothing, shelter, a form of transportation to carry the employee to work (if public transportation is unavailable in that area), and a tiny bit extra for saving if the employee so wishes. But all an employer should be obligated to pay (as far as wages are concerned) ends there!

Want an iPhone? Tough. Skype is free! Want a better looking car than that ugly brown jalopy you're riding in? Tough. It's reliable; you want a pretty car, get a better job. Don't make enough money at this lowest of all paying jobs to take care of your kid? Try not dropping one out you know you won't have the money to feed.

I agree with the side that wants the minimum wage to increase, but it has to have limits! I get nauseous when hearing anything about big corporations, but even I can't blame Walmart for some folk's dumb decisions!

Question! Would a law stating that any for profit entity wishing to do so must pay/provide ( X ) for the privilege of exploiting the buying power of the U.S. citizenry, be fair? X can be... whatever. Just pipe dreaming Tongue don't wanna turn this into an anti-multi-inter-national-corporation rant.

I don't disagree with the basic point you're making, that corporations should be paying living wages.

But I do try and reserve my judgement on the "luxuries" you list because they tend to become a focal point of judgement for some people.

For instance, my wife and I hit a really rough patch about 5 years ago. She couldn't find work and all we had was the base pay of a grad student (which isn't much) on top of mounting bills (like her loan payments). At the time, we already had iPhones before we hit the rough patch, on my mom's plan, and even nice clothes. But we also had a kid and no way of feeding all of us and affording housing. So we had WIC (women, infants, and children). No doubt that we had plenty of judgement laid upon is for having such exorbitant luxuries as iPhones and cell phone plans along with nice clothes as we used the WIC checks. I'm slower to judge these days

Being nice is something stupid people do to hedge their bets
-Rick
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29-07-2015, 09:40 PM
RE: Raising Minimum Wage - or How to Keep the Poor, Poor.
(29-07-2015 09:12 PM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  
(29-07-2015 09:04 PM)TheGulegon Wrote:  
Irrelevant of the fact that the lesser intelligent ape threw his poo first,
and irrelevant of the fact that the action of the highly intelligent ape catching said poo & throwing it right back could be considered even more sad than the action that initially caused the turd to take flight,
a poo fight has begun!

After a poo slinging fight, all the apes smell like ape shit! Tongue

Minimum wage should be enough to provide a singular person with enough money to buy food, clothing, shelter, a form of transportation to carry the employee to work (if public transportation is unavailable in that area), and a tiny bit extra for saving if the employee so wishes. But all an employer should be obligated to pay (as far as wages are concerned) ends there!

Want an iPhone? Tough. Skype is free! Want a better looking car than that ugly brown jalopy you're riding in? Tough. It's reliable; you want a pretty car, get a better job. Don't make enough money at this lowest of all paying jobs to take care of your kid? Try not dropping one out you know you won't have the money to feed.

I agree with the side that wants the minimum wage to increase, but it has to have limits! I get nauseous when hearing anything about big corporations, but even I can't blame Walmart for some folk's dumb decisions!

Question! Would a law stating that any for profit entity wishing to do so must pay/provide ( X ) for the privilege of exploiting the buying power of the U.S. citizenry, be fair? X can be... whatever. Just pipe dreaming Tongue don't wanna turn this into an anti-multi-inter-national-corporation rant.

I don't disagree with the basic point you're making, that corporations should be paying living wages.

But I do try and reserve my judgement on the "luxuries" you list because they tend to become a focal point of judgement for some people.

For instance, my wife and I hit a really rough patch about 5 years ago. She couldn't find work and all we had was the base pay of a grad student (which isn't much) on top of mounting bills (like her loan payments). At the time, we already had iPhones before we hit the rough patch, on my mom's plan, and even nice clothes. But we also had a kid and no way of feeding all of us and affording housing. So we had WIC (women, infants, and children). No doubt that we had plenty of judgement laid upon is for having such exorbitant luxuries as iPhones and cell phone plans along with nice clothes as we used the WIC checks. I'm slower to judge these days

Oh I do not judge someone for driving a jalopy (I ain't one to quit on a motor vehicle just cuz it's got a lil age Tongue ), or having a kid, but expecting Wal-Mart to pay for it... maybe apply at Cost-Co, friend! I've been in a Wal-Mart, and know if I ever go to apply there, it's Ramen noodles for me from now on! Weeping A Ford P.o.S., and a shitty apartment just big enough for my x-box is all I'd expect! Consider Probably all I'd need, too! I don't ask much.

But I was serious when I asked that half serious question. Revs talked about how most of the profits businesses take out of the lil guy's pocket are never seen again, and I was wondering if something could be done about that. Nothing on an individual basis, but perhaps being obligated by law to do something for the community from which they vampirically feed (I couldn't help that last). Like paying for a portion of the maintenance on the infrastructure that their employees utilize to travel between work and home. Anything to get just a little of that money back where it came from. Or am I pipe dreaming for realz? Laugh out load

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30-07-2015, 12:12 AM
RE: Raising Minimum Wage - or How to Keep the Poor, Poor.
(29-07-2015 06:11 PM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  That doesn't mean that corporations are paying them a fair wage. In a climate of record-breaking profits, I don't buy the argument that companies can't afford to pay their employees more. They can adjust prices and help cover cost. If gladly pay a little more here and there if it helped out with employee wages.

Unfortunately, not all consumers are so generous. They shop for price value, and that means that the company which best cuts expenses is more likely to succeed. I get the anger aroused by obscene CEO salaries -- it angers me -- but what are you going to do? Regulate how a company owner spends his budget?

I've never argued that companies cannot pay their employees more, so I'm unsure why you're directing that at me.

(29-07-2015 06:11 PM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  And the basics of the employee/employer relationship all boil down to money. Employer wants profit, employee wants fair compensation. For decades the trickle down, low wage, anti-Union, pro-employer idea has slowly chipped away at the middle class while the pay at the top sky rocketed. It hasn't worked for our economy or the middle class. It's a slow return to slave wages.

I agree that the middle class is toast. But all the wage regulation in the world won't change that, because the middle class was killed by an international labor market that has Third-Worlders willing to make I-phones for three bucks a day. American labor is not competitive on the world market, and that means that American companies have one of two options -- offshore jobs, or minimize wages. It's a shit sandwich for the people who actually make the goods, yes -- but what is the alternative? Raising the minimum wage will not increase our competitiveness.
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30-07-2015, 12:24 AM
RE: Raising Minimum Wage - or How to Keep the Poor, Poor.
Now you see I can also agree with you beardeddude.

NOTE: Member, Tomasia uses this site to slander other individuals. He then later proclaims it a joke, but not in public.
I will call him a liar and a dog here and now.
Banjo.
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