Raising Minimum Wage - or How to Keep the Poor, Poor.
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30-07-2015, 06:38 AM
Raising Minimum Wage - or How to Keep the Poor, Poor.
Thump, and there are studies in behavioral economics (I think that's the category it's under) that try and better understand things like purchasing patterns and habits.

Some simple experiments like, if you could save $3 on a purchase of something that costs $12 at one store near you versus $9 at a store a little further down the road, would you? Most people would if it is that much of a savings.

But change it up a little. If you could save $3 on the purchase of a new computer where it's $799 at the store you're in vs $796 at a store down the road, would you leave to save the $3? Most people wouldn't. What changed? The absolute dollar amount didn't, but the relative amount did.

I think most price adjustment would be like the latter scenario where prices wouldn't sky rocket but would adjust by 1-2% here or there. My guess is most consumers won't even notice.

Being nice is something stupid people do to hedge their bets
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30-07-2015, 07:06 AM
RE: Raising Minimum Wage - or How to Keep the Poor, Poor.
(30-07-2015 01:32 AM)Heywood Jahblome Wrote:  
(30-07-2015 01:24 AM)Nurse Wrote:  Right...they open stores, snuff out their competition and destroy small business leaving the working class with limited options for where to work and purchase their goods, and with limited options for work, they can get away with paying their employees bottom dollar. That's not even taking into account their lobbyists getting politicians to give them lovely little tax loopholes.


I'm well acquainted with working for a monopoly - fuck the Huntsville Hospital Health system. They keep nursing perpetually short staffed, driving up competition for nurses to get a job and allowing them to pay them piss poor wages. They tell their nurses they don't have the funds to pay them any better, that they should be thankful they should even have a job (in a lovely letter read in a morning shift huddle), and keep them desperate to keep their jobs because there are many more willing to take their place... Then they go and keep buying more regional hospitals, build pretty landscaping on the grounds, give the CEO a raise when laying off housekeeping staff and contemplating cutting nurse wages... They have no incentive to pay their nurses a decent wage, why would they? They don't have any competition.

Walmart has plenty of competition, that is why their prices are so low. It is certainly not a monopoly. With the boon in online retailers like amazon, Walmart is facing more competition that ever.

A big problem with health care is barrier to entry. You seem like a smart and competent nurse. Why can't you open your own practice? You should be able too as far as I am concerned. Do you have the expertise of a doctor? No, but most of the time I don't need the expertise of a doctor when getting my health care.

Walmart's "low prices" is mostly a myth. It is their underhanded business practices that makes them profitable.

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30-07-2015, 08:01 AM
RE: Raising Minimum Wage - or How to Keep the Poor, Poor.
Also, on the vein of upward mobility for the arguments that people should somehow "upskill" themselves or "look for better jobs" etc, here is the thread I started a while back on upward mobility plus links within.


The basics boil down to, it isn't as easy to move up as people want to believe it is. And it is even harder the further down the ladder you are, like being a minimum wage employee.

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30-07-2015, 10:06 AM
RE: Raising Minimum Wage - or How to Keep the Poor, Poor.
(30-07-2015 01:25 AM)Heywood Jahblome Wrote:  I suspect that if you eliminated the food stamp program, Walmart would still pay minimum wage. In fact that would help Walmart as higher caliber but now more desperate people would be seeking second jobs to make their nut.

I'm thinking you missed my point, which was that we pick up the costs one way or another.

(30-07-2015 01:25 AM)Heywood Jahblome Wrote:  No evidence has ever been shown by the left that food stamp programs and such allow Walmart to pay less as they often claim.

Nor has any evidence been presented showing that a rising tide does indeed lift all boats.

Over to you.
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30-07-2015, 10:17 AM
RE: Raising Minimum Wage - or How to Keep the Poor, Poor.
(30-07-2015 01:25 AM)Heywood Jahblome Wrote:  No evidence has ever been shown by the left that food stamp programs and such allow Walmart to pay less as they often claim.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/clareoconnor...ssistance/

http://democrats.edworkforce.house.gov/s...ay2013.pdf

Evidence presented.

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30-07-2015, 10:19 AM
RE: Raising Minimum Wage - or How to Keep the Poor, Poor.
(29-07-2015 03:41 PM)onlinebiker Wrote:  Somebody questions your bullshit - they're a troll...

Or in my case, biased and bigoted.


I see a pattern here....Drinking Beverage
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30-07-2015, 10:40 AM
RE: Raising Minimum Wage - or How to Keep the Poor, Poor.
(30-07-2015 06:38 AM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  Thump, and there are studies in behavioral economics (I think that's the category it's under) that try and better understand things like purchasing patterns and habits.

Some simple experiments like, if you could save $3 on a purchase of something that costs $12 at one store near you versus $9 at a store a little further down the road, would you? Most people would if it is that much of a savings.

But change it up a little. If you could save $3 on the purchase of a new computer where it's $799 at the store you're in vs $796 at a store down the road, would you leave to save the $3? Most people wouldn't. What changed? The absolute dollar amount didn't, but the relative amount did.

I think most price adjustment would be like the latter scenario where prices wouldn't sky rocket but would adjust by 1-2% here or there. My guess is most consumers won't even notice.

Perhaps. But then again, they flocked to garments made in Asia, dealing a deadly blow to the garment industry in the Carolinas. In that price range, the willingness of workers in Third World countries to work for pennies can and did put many Americans out of well-paid work. Toy industry, ditto.

I try to shop made in America even though it costs me more, usually.
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30-07-2015, 10:41 AM
Raising Minimum Wage - or How to Keep the Poor, Poor.
(30-07-2015 10:19 AM)TheBear Wrote:  
(29-07-2015 03:41 PM)onlinebiker Wrote:  Somebody questions your bullshit - they're a troll...

Or in my case, biased and bigoted.


I see a pattern here....Drinking Beverage

I'm sorry you don't like the negative aspects of your opinions expressed. (I'm not sorry, that was sarcasm)

Being nice is something stupid people do to hedge their bets
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30-07-2015, 10:42 AM
Raising Minimum Wage - or How to Keep the Poor, Poor.
(30-07-2015 10:40 AM)Thumpalumpacus Wrote:  
(30-07-2015 06:38 AM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  Thump, and there are studies in behavioral economics (I think that's the category it's under) that try and better understand things like purchasing patterns and habits.

Some simple experiments like, if you could save $3 on a purchase of something that costs $12 at one store near you versus $9 at a store a little further down the road, would you? Most people would if it is that much of a savings.

But change it up a little. If you could save $3 on the purchase of a new computer where it's $799 at the store you're in vs $796 at a store down the road, would you leave to save the $3? Most people wouldn't. What changed? The absolute dollar amount didn't, but the relative amount did.

I think most price adjustment would be like the latter scenario where prices wouldn't sky rocket but would adjust by 1-2% here or there. My guess is most consumers won't even notice.

Perhaps. But then again, they flocked to garments made in Asia, dealing a deadly blow to the garment industry in the Carolinas. In that price range, the willingness of workers in Third World countries to work for pennies can and did put many Americans out of well-paid work. Toy industry, ditto.

I try to shop made in America even though it costs me more, usually.

They who? Consumers or the companies?

If the companies, that's because they wanted to maintain profit. If the consumer, what choice did they have?

Being nice is something stupid people do to hedge their bets
-Rick
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30-07-2015, 10:55 AM (This post was last modified: 30-07-2015 05:52 PM by Thumpalumpacus.)
RE: Raising Minimum Wage - or How to Keep the Poor, Poor.
(30-07-2015 10:42 AM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  They who? Consumers or the companies?

If the companies, that's because they wanted to maintain profit. If the consumer, what choice did they have?

The market didn't shift overnight. Throughout the 80s I could buy Levis made in America. Then for a few years I could choose between MiA and made-in-Mexico Levi's. That holds true for shirts and shoes, too. As a group, American consumers over time opted for more affordable goods, and that drove companies to find ways to cut expenses. And in most operations, HR is the #1 expense.
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