Raising Minimum Wage - or How to Keep the Poor, Poor.
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30-07-2015, 11:21 AM
RE: Raising Minimum Wage - or How to Keep the Poor, Poor.
(30-07-2015 10:41 AM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  
(30-07-2015 10:19 AM)TheBear Wrote:  Or in my case, biased and bigoted.


I see a pattern here....Drinking Beverage

I'm sorry you don't like the negative aspects of your opinions expressed. (I'm not sorry, that was sarcasm)

Oh, you're good.

When talking about minimum to get by type work ethics, you thought I was talking about poor people and then accused me of being biased and bigoted against poor people. (surprisingly, you didn't also find/create a racism angle to the whole thing) When I pointed out that I was talking about people I work with who are already making more than $15 an hour, instead of apologizing for your slanderous and false accusations, you come back with a deflection question ~ 'is slacking a new phenomenon?'.

Now, I know you want to save face on this board, but, you know what you did and you know you were wrong. Stop assigning motives to people and just address their points, and you won't have these issues.
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30-07-2015, 11:37 AM
RE: Raising Minimum Wage - or How to Keep the Poor, Poor.
(30-07-2015 11:21 AM)TheBear Wrote:  
(30-07-2015 10:41 AM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  I'm sorry you don't like the negative aspects of your opinions expressed. (I'm not sorry, that was sarcasm)

Oh, you're good.

When talking about minimum to get by type work ethics, you thought I was talking about poor people and then accused me of being biased and bigoted against poor people. (surprisingly, you didn't also find/create a racism angle to the whole thing) When I pointed out that I was talking about people I work with who are already making more than $15 an hour, instead of apologizing for your slanderous and false accusations, you come back with a deflection question ~ 'is slacking a new phenomenon?'.

Now, I know you want to save face on this board, but, you know what you did and you know you were wrong. Stop assigning motives to people and just address their points, and you won't have these issues.


Your actual Quote

(27-07-2015 03:21 PM)TheBear Wrote:  These lazy, 'minimum to get by' mentality, finding the easiest way to collect a paycheck, shitty work ethic types, will soon take over the work force. These fucking millennials, who think the world owes them, (the spoiled fucks), won't do shit to truly be productive.


Yeah TBD was right to call you on your bullshit.

(31-07-2014 04:37 PM)Luminon Wrote:  America is full of guns, but they're useless, because nobody has the courage to shoot an IRS agent in self-defense
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30-07-2015, 11:47 AM
RE: Raising Minimum Wage - or How to Keep the Poor, Poor.
(30-07-2015 11:37 AM)Revenant77x Wrote:  
(30-07-2015 11:21 AM)TheBear Wrote:  Oh, you're good.

When talking about minimum to get by type work ethics, you thought I was talking about poor people and then accused me of being biased and bigoted against poor people. (surprisingly, you didn't also find/create a racism angle to the whole thing) When I pointed out that I was talking about people I work with who are already making more than $15 an hour, instead of apologizing for your slanderous and false accusations, you come back with a deflection question ~ 'is slacking a new phenomenon?'.

Now, I know you want to save face on this board, but, you know what you did and you know you were wrong. Stop assigning motives to people and just address their points, and you won't have these issues.


Your actual Quote

(27-07-2015 03:21 PM)TheBear Wrote:  These lazy, 'minimum to get by' mentality, finding the easiest way to collect a paycheck, shitty work ethic types, will soon take over the work force. These fucking millennials, who think the world owes them, (the spoiled fucks), won't do shit to truly be productive.


Yeah TBD was right to call you on your bullshit.

Again - talking about people who are already making MORE THAN $15 an hour. 3rd time this has been clarified to you. You're not going to admit what you did, even when plainly pointed out to you.

Trolls are the ones who want to save face and will not admit when they are flat-out wrong about something. Instead, they dig in their heels and double down. So be it. I now have a better insight as to who you are as a person.
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30-07-2015, 11:50 AM
RE: Raising Minimum Wage - or How to Keep the Poor, Poor.
(30-07-2015 08:01 AM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  Also, on the vein of upward mobility for the arguments that people should somehow "upskill" themselves or "look for better jobs" etc, here is the thread I started a while back on upward mobility plus links within.


The basics boil down to, it isn't as easy to move up as people want to believe it is. And it is even harder the further down the ladder you are, like being a minimum wage employee.


And you don't see the disconnect in your logic????

....

You say -- it's harder for a person to go up the pay ladder, the further down they are --- and yet --- you want to put everyone at the bottom of that ladder -- by raising minimum wage.

Facepalm

Don't bother answering....

Anything you say is going to disprove itself.....

.......................................

The difference between prayer and masturbation - is when a guy is through masturbating - he has something to show for his efforts.
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30-07-2015, 12:03 PM
RE: Raising Minimum Wage - or How to Keep the Poor, Poor.
I don't see how raising the MW makes those who earn more than MW poorer in absolute terms. It may make them MW earners (assuming their company is short-sighted and doesn't give them a raise to compensate them for experience and knowledge) -- but you don't pay your bills with relative wealth, you pay it with money.

How does raising the MW take money away from those earning above it?
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30-07-2015, 12:07 PM
Raising Minimum Wage - or How to Keep the Poor, Poor.
(30-07-2015 11:21 AM)TheBear Wrote:  
(30-07-2015 10:41 AM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  I'm sorry you don't like the negative aspects of your opinions expressed. (I'm not sorry, that was sarcasm)

Oh, you're good.

When talking about minimum to get by type work ethics, you thought I was talking about poor people and then accused me of being biased and bigoted against poor people. (surprisingly, you didn't also find/create a racism angle to the whole thing) When I pointed out that I was talking about people I work with who are already making more than $15 an hour, instead of apologizing for your slanderous and false accusations, you come back with a deflection question ~ 'is slacking a new phenomenon?'.

Now, I know you want to save face on this board, but, you know what you did and you know you were wrong. Stop assigning motives to people and just address their points, and you won't have these issues.

Amateur psychologist?

Being nice is something stupid people do to hedge their bets
-Rick
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30-07-2015, 12:09 PM
Raising Minimum Wage - or How to Keep the Poor, Poor.
(30-07-2015 11:47 AM)TheBear Wrote:  
(30-07-2015 11:37 AM)Revenant77x Wrote:  Your actual Quote



Yeah TBD was right to call you on your bullshit.

Again - talking about people who are already making MORE THAN $15 an hour. 3rd time this has been clarified to you. You're not going to admit what you did, even when plainly pointed out to you.

Trolls are the ones who want to save face and will not admit when they are flat-out wrong about something. Instead, they dig in their heels and double down. So be it. I now have a better insight as to who you are as a person.

Your words were not misconstrued or taken out of context. They were taken at face value. As Rev points out (using your own words), you didn't say what you're now claiming you did.

But by all means, project on to me ye amateur psychologist.

Being nice is something stupid people do to hedge their bets
-Rick
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30-07-2015, 12:10 PM
Raising Minimum Wage - or How to Keep the Poor, Poor.
(30-07-2015 12:03 PM)Thumpalumpacus Wrote:  I don't see how raising the MW makes those who earn more than MW poorer in absolute terms. It may make them MW earners (assuming their company is short-sighted and doesn't give them a raise to compensate them for experience and knowledge) -- but you don't pay your bills with relative wealth, you pay it with money.

How does raising the MW take money away from those earning above it?

It doesn't, but it does remove the aspect of feeling superior for making more money. It's a blow to the ego I guess.

Being nice is something stupid people do to hedge their bets
-Rick
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30-07-2015, 12:16 PM
Raising Minimum Wage - or How to Keep the Poor, Poor.
(30-07-2015 10:55 AM)Thumpalumpacus Wrote:  
(30-07-2015 10:42 AM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  They who? Consumers or the companies?

If the companies, that's because they wanted to maintain profit. If the consumer, what choice did they have?

The market didn't shift overnight. Throughout the 80s I could buy Levis made in America. Then for a few years I could choose between MiA and made-in-Mexico Levi's. The holds true for shirts and shoes. As a group, American consumers over time opted for more affordable goods, and that drove companies to find ways to cut expenses. And in most operations, HR is the #1 expense.

I realize it didn't happen overnight, but I think the fact that it occurred over a prolonged period is why the consumers had no real choice. Production slowly shifting from America to third world countries (and not just one company doing it, but competitors doing it to) made it impossible to see what was really happening.

The idea is that consumers choose which companies stay and go through competition, but that doesn't seem to happen that much in practice with large companies. The choice may be between choosing between two or three companies that all use foreign labor. Which means there is no choice at all. And a lot of people probably never paid any attention to where production occurred in the first place.

For instance, I'm using an iPhone and I know the conditions they are made in is deplorable. But other smart phone manufacturers do the same things and use the same cheap foreign labor. So when faced with a choice between different companies to buy my cell phone from, I've no choice at all for picking and selecting a company based on ethics, unless I don't buy one at all. And that doesn't do anything to the company because they've a million other customers to sell to.

The sad part is that America may never regain the manufacturing sector (the UK didn't), but that means there is a need to shift focus away from those sectors for jobs in the U.S. But now we're on another tangent and I'm not even sure what I'm discussing or defending at this point.

Being nice is something stupid people do to hedge their bets
-Rick
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30-07-2015, 12:18 PM
RE: Raising Minimum Wage - or How to Keep the Poor, Poor.
(30-07-2015 12:03 PM)Thumpalumpacus Wrote:  I don't see how raising the MW makes those who earn more than MW poorer in absolute terms. It may make them MW earners (assuming their company is short-sighted and doesn't give them a raise to compensate them for experience and knowledge) -- but you don't pay your bills with relative wealth, you pay it with money.

How does raising the MW take money away from those earning above it?

It doesn't - immediately.

Over time as inflation takes over - it does.

It also flattens wages overall - in any company that has a fixed period of pay raises...

If you're making MW +5% and they raise minimum -- on the next quarter -- you'll get your raise -- and so will the guy who made minimum, when you were +5%. You'll still be the lowest paid guy in the shop. (they won't be hiring -- trust me on this.. the first thing any business does when costs go up, is freeze hiring)

It's not just a slap in the face to those just above minimum - it's a kick in the nuts too, later on....

.......................................

The difference between prayer and masturbation - is when a guy is through masturbating - he has something to show for his efforts.
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