Raising Minimum Wage - or How to Keep the Poor, Poor.
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30-07-2015, 07:44 PM
RE: Raising Minimum Wage - or How to Keep the Poor, Poor.
Irony ---

Starting a thread, and being outposted by your detractors 3 to 1 --- and being declared a troll, by those who took over............

....


Is life fucking weird, or what????

.......................................

The difference between prayer and masturbation - is when a guy is through masturbating - he has something to show for his efforts.
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30-07-2015, 07:46 PM
RE: Raising Minimum Wage - or How to Keep the Poor, Poor.
(30-07-2015 07:36 PM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  
(30-07-2015 07:35 PM)BryanS Wrote:  My point is that it makes sense for a high cost of living community like Seattle to have a higher minimum wage due to those costs of living. $15/hr is not the same everywhere. My point is also that taking Seattle as an example and applying it to the entire country is fallacious argumentation. And I also stated that a flat minimum wage means earning that wage in a high cost of living community makes onerelatively poorer than someone with the same wage and lower costs of living.

No one extrapolated Seattle to all of the U.S. The point is to demonstrate that the generic rhetoric that a higher minimum wage is a job killer is false.

Also, "relatively poorer" is irrelevant. Why does that matter?



But that "general point" is not generalizable when the cost of living, say in rural Wisconsin, is less than half that of Seattle. Citing the results of $15/hr in Seattle is argument by a cherry-picked example.

Why does "relatively poorer" matter? Why don't you ask someone in a high cost of living city just what it's be like to be earning the national minimum wage? You'll find the answer to that question right quick.
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30-07-2015, 07:48 PM
RE: Raising Minimum Wage - or How to Keep the Poor, Poor.
(30-07-2015 07:36 PM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  The point is to demonstrate that the generic rhetoric that a higher minimum wage is a job killer is false.
Well, I don't see how anyone can "believe" that banner.
How do you logically assess that raising minimum wage leads to less unemployment?

How does that work?
Is it because somehow there are more jobs available or is it because now with the higher wage more people are choosing to work rather than choosing to be unemployed?

Or is there something else at play?
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30-07-2015, 07:50 PM
RE: Raising Minimum Wage - or How to Keep the Poor, Poor.
(30-07-2015 07:44 PM)onlinebiker Wrote:  Irony ---

Starting a thread, and being outposted by your detractors 3 to 1 --- and being declared a troll, by those who took over............

....


Is life fucking weird, or what????

The answer to what happens when minimum wage is raised to those near the minimum wage is quite simply the other wage earners gradually adjust to make more as well. The adjustment happens simply due to market pressures. In order to attract better than minimum-wage employees and work product, one has to pay more than minimum wage. The increase may take some time, but it will happen.

I don't buy your original post's argument, though I'm no lefty by any means.
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30-07-2015, 07:52 PM
RE: Raising Minimum Wage - or How to Keep the Poor, Poor.
(30-07-2015 07:48 PM)Stevil Wrote:  
(30-07-2015 07:36 PM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  The point is to demonstrate that the generic rhetoric that a higher minimum wage is a job killer is false.
Well, I don't see how anyone can "believe" that banner.
How do you logically assess that raising minimum wage leads to less unemployment?

How does that work?
Is it because somehow there are more jobs available or is it because now with the higher wage more people are choosing to work rather than choosing to be unemployed?

Or is there something else at play?

The typical left argument is a demand side economic argument--they claim that giving the working poor more money leads to more immediate spending. I think it's a dubious claim since the working poor often have other forms of public assistance/support which tends to be reduced as incomes increase.
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30-07-2015, 07:58 PM
RE: Raising Minimum Wage - or How to Keep the Poor, Poor.
(30-07-2015 07:50 PM)BryanS Wrote:  
(30-07-2015 07:44 PM)onlinebiker Wrote:  Irony ---

Starting a thread, and being outposted by your detractors 3 to 1 --- and being declared a troll, by those who took over............

....


Is life fucking weird, or what????

The answer to what happens when minimum wage is raised to those near the minimum wage is quite simply the other wage earners gradually adjust to make more as well. The adjustment happens simply due to market pressures. In order to attract better than minimum-wage employees and work product, one has to pay more than minimum wage. The increase may take some time, but it will happen.

I don't buy your original post's argument, though I'm no lefty by any means.

We don't agree -- but you're most certainly civil in your disagreement.

For that, I say thanks.

You needn't be a "lefty".

Few buy all the tenants of "left" and "right" - but find themselves somewhere in between...

.......................................

The difference between prayer and masturbation - is when a guy is through masturbating - he has something to show for his efforts.
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30-07-2015, 08:10 PM
RE: Raising Minimum Wage - or How to Keep the Poor, Poor.
(30-07-2015 07:58 PM)onlinebiker Wrote:  We don't agree -- but you're most certainly civil in your disagreement.

For that, I say thanks.

You needn't be a "lefty".

Few buy all the tenants of "left" and "right" - but find themselves somewhere in between...

I have my own personal example that makes me think my point is correct. I was a supervisor at a fast food joint while in school, and at the time the minimum wage was risen from $4.25 to $5.15. Supervisors would have revolted if the incremental higher wage were not maintained, and I received the same pay increase new hires received. Despite being a fast food joint, nobody was paid exactly the minimum wage, probably to avoid the stigma of that pay rate for what was clearly minimum wage work.

Minimum wage is a gauge for relative skill and experience for near minimum wage work. People capable of more than the lowest level employee will demand more or find someone who will pay a premium for their superior skills. I certainly did that, and my employer anticipated that amongst its crew.
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30-07-2015, 08:11 PM
RE: Raising Minimum Wage - or How to Keep the Poor, Poor.
http://other98.com/billionaire-nick-hana...eate-jobs/

Quote:Our current state minimum wage is $9.47—30% higher than the federal minimum. Seattle’s minimum wage is now $11.00 , 52% higher than the national minimum. But we have no tip penalty in our state, so our tipped workers make $11 plus tips, 513% higher than the federal tipped minimum of $2.13, and more than twice the $5 still paid here in NY.

So, if the good people from the industry were right, that a higher minimum wage killed jobs, then we should have no restaurants in Seattle, right? You would have to bring food and cooking equipment when you came to visit us in the hinterlands. How could it not be otherwise, with these stratospherically high wages?

But here’s a really odd thing. Not only do we still have some restaurants in Seattle, we have a lot of them. In fact, we have more of them per capita than even—wait for it—New York City. According to a Bloomberg analysis, of all major cities in the US, Seattle ranks second in restaurants per capita. New York is number four. Read it and weep, New York. OK, so surely the number one spot will be held by some low-wage paradise, right? Not hardly. The number one spot is San Francisco, the only place in America that pays restaurant workers $12.25, even more than Seattle. Why? How can this be? They told us that high wages killed jobs!! And business! And the economy!

Nonsense.

Seattle has more restaurants than New York because that’s how capitalism works. The fundamental law of capitalism is: when workers have more money, businesses have more customers, and need to hire more workers. In places where wages are high, business is good—particularly for restaurants.

In the real world paying more money to those at the bottom is the single best way to grow an economy.

(31-07-2014 04:37 PM)Luminon Wrote:  America is full of guns, but they're useless, because nobody has the courage to shoot an IRS agent in self-defense
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30-07-2015, 11:12 PM
RE: Raising Minimum Wage - or How to Keep the Poor, Poor.
(30-07-2015 03:06 PM)Stevil Wrote:  
(30-07-2015 01:44 PM)Heywood Jahblome Wrote:  Why hire a black kid if you have to pay him the same wages you pay a white kid?
Don't understand this, why would skin colour impact the worth of a person's labour services?
It's about skills and attitude etc rather than skin colour right?

There was and still is a lot of racism in this country. Despite this racism blacks were able to find employment buy underbidding white labor. Of course this could not stand so prevailing wage laws and minimum wage laws were passed. Now it became illegal for blacks to underbid whites. Had there not been prevailing wage laws and minimum wage laws, blacks today would be much better off.

To those who say discrimination is illegal that doesn't stop it from happening. A business owner can still favor whites over blacks. He will simply make up reasons not to hire the black applicants.

Right now there are special ed people who could work but no one will hire them because their productivity is not worth the minimum wage.

Minimum wage cuts the bottom rungs off the economic ladder. It is morally evil because it hurts the people who need the most help.

I support no minimum wage and a universal basic income.
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30-07-2015, 11:18 PM
RE: Raising Minimum Wage - or How to Keep the Poor, Poor.
(30-07-2015 05:19 PM)Anjele Wrote:  
(30-07-2015 01:44 PM)Heywood Jahblome Wrote:  For those whose labor is not worth the minimum wage, the ladder is moved out of reach. Blacks were relegated to the ghettos because minimum wage laws priced their labor out of the market. Why hire a black kid if you have to pay him the same wages you pay a white kid? Minimum wage allowed employers to discriminate without economic consequence.

I cannot even believe you said that...and I have low expectations when it comes to your posts.

I'm not saying you shouldn't hire blacks.....dummy. I am saying that if you are so inclined not hire blacks you can do it without any economic consequence thanks to the minimum wage.
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