Raising Minimum Wage - or How to Keep the Poor, Poor.
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01-08-2015, 09:00 AM
RE: Raising Minimum Wage - or How to Keep the Poor, Poor.
(31-07-2015 06:16 PM)earmuffs Wrote:  
(31-07-2015 03:08 AM)Heywood Jahblome Wrote:  Minimum wage really doesn't matter. In the long run all those minimum wage jobs are going to be replaced by automation.

Not for a while, which means they do matter.

And not all of them. You can't really automate picking liter up at ungodly hours of the morning to keep the streets clean. Customer service, some people like talking to people and so there will always be that need for human to human customer service element. Call centers, you can automate that but that comes back to the previous sentence. Waitering, pumping gas etc..
Just because something can be automated doesn't mean it will.

Automation doesn't eliminate all positions, but it does cut back on how many are needed. We still have bank tellers, just a tiny fraction of what we used to have due to the ATM. Self checkout aisles used to be found occasionally at some stores--now it seems every store has them, and they are expanding the quantity of them with one staff person managing now as many as 8 self checkout stations.

I frankly prefer self checkout stations over dealing with the minimum wage staff who typically run them. I can check my own items out faster than the people who work there as a career, and the lines tend to be shorter as well.

A lot of account functions that used to require a person are being automated into self help phone support with telecommunications companies. This and other automation is all happening with or without a minimum wage--only a much higher minimum wage just makes it more economical to move faster on automation.
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01-08-2015, 10:40 AM
RE: Raising Minimum Wage - or How to Keep the Poor, Poor.
(01-08-2015 02:23 AM)Heywood Jahblome Wrote:   Some of the Walmart employees look like they just got off the boat. What do you think will happen if Walmart is forced to pay Costco wages?

First the 'why would you hire a black kid when you could hire a white one' now this.

Just when I think you can't sink any lower...you plunge down another notch.

I don't forgive you for being a bigot.

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01-08-2015, 11:29 AM
RE: Raising Minimum Wage - or How to Keep the Poor, Poor.
(01-08-2015 10:40 AM)Anjele Wrote:  
(01-08-2015 02:23 AM)Heywood Jahblome Wrote:   Some of the Walmart employees look like they just got off the boat. What do you think will happen if Walmart is forced to pay Costco wages?

First the 'why would you hire a black kid when you could hire a white one' now this.

Just when I think you can't sink any lower...you plunge down another notch.

I don't forgive you for being a bigot.

I forgive you for calling me a bigot.
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01-08-2015, 11:37 AM
RE: Raising Minimum Wage - or How to Keep the Poor, Poor.
(01-08-2015 09:00 AM)BryanS Wrote:  
(31-07-2015 06:16 PM)earmuffs Wrote:  Not for a while, which means they do matter.

And not all of them. You can't really automate picking liter up at ungodly hours of the morning to keep the streets clean. Customer service, some people like talking to people and so there will always be that need for human to human customer service element. Call centers, you can automate that but that comes back to the previous sentence. Waitering, pumping gas etc..
Just because something can be automated doesn't mean it will.

Automation doesn't eliminate all positions, but it does cut back on how many are needed. We still have bank tellers, just a tiny fraction of what we used to have due to the ATM. Self checkout aisles used to be found occasionally at some stores--now it seems every store has them, and they are expanding the quantity of them with one staff person managing now as many as 8 self checkout stations.

I frankly prefer self checkout stations over dealing with the minimum wage staff who typically run them. I can check my own items out faster than the people who work there as a career, and the lines tend to be shorter as well.

A lot of account functions that used to require a person are being automated into self help phone support with telecommunications companies. This and other automation is all happening with or without a minimum wage--only a much higher minimum wage just makes it more economical to move faster on automation.

Technology is coming where you simply pass your entire cart through a scanner and it checks out everything all in one go. No need to swipe everything one at a time across a scanner.

Yes there will always be some jobs for the foreseeable future just as there as still some jobs for horses. However keep in mind the horse population peaked about 100 years ago. It has since declined because due to automation horses are simply unemployable in the vast quantities that they once were. The same is going to happen to humans.
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01-08-2015, 12:09 PM
RE: Raising Minimum Wage - or How to Keep the Poor, Poor.
(01-08-2015 02:26 AM)Heywood Jahblome Wrote:  I'd hire convicted felons if it gave me a competitive advantage. That isn't possible under current laws except in rare situations where the convict has highly specialized skills that even with his felony status would warrant pay much higher than the minimum wage.

You cannot assess "competitive advantage" unless you also know your competitor's workforce. You hire based on expected productivity, matching skillsets to requirements, ability to fit into the team -- and those qualities are measured not in comparison with your competitor's workforce, but against other applicants.

What sorts of businesses were you hiring for? Forgive my skepticism, but your post above reads like a very nice abstract way of thinking about staffing a business ... but it's laughably unrealistic. Did you know your every competitors' employees individually well enough that you could assess their value to their employer?

You wouldn't hire a parolee no matter the wage under discussion. You should just admit that and move on. Don't worry, others of us will help them reintegrate into society.
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01-08-2015, 12:43 PM
RE: Raising Minimum Wage - or How to Keep the Poor, Poor.
Who gets to decide the value of "x"? We've had one class dictating that to labor.FYI labor is not a letter or numbers on a page, we are humans who do the bulk of the work that make the rich rich.

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01-08-2015, 12:57 PM
RE: Raising Minimum Wage - or How to Keep the Poor, Poor.
(01-08-2015 12:43 PM)Brian37 Wrote:  Who gets to decide the value of "x"? We've had one class dictating that to labor.FYI labor is not a letter or numbers on a page, we are humans who do the bulk of the work that make the rich rich.

Actually you have the government dictating to the rich how much they will pay for low skilled labor. It is called a minimum wage.
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01-08-2015, 07:46 PM
RE: Raising Minimum Wage - or How to Keep the Poor, Poor.
(01-08-2015 09:00 AM)BryanS Wrote:  
(31-07-2015 06:16 PM)earmuffs Wrote:  Not for a while, which means they do matter.

And not all of them. You can't really automate picking liter up at ungodly hours of the morning to keep the streets clean. Customer service, some people like talking to people and so there will always be that need for human to human customer service element. Call centers, you can automate that but that comes back to the previous sentence. Waitering, pumping gas etc..
Just because something can be automated doesn't mean it will.

Automation doesn't eliminate all positions, but it does cut back on how many are needed. We still have bank tellers, just a tiny fraction of what we used to have due to the ATM. Self checkout aisles used to be found occasionally at some stores--now it seems every store has them, and they are expanding the quantity of them with one staff person managing now as many as 8 self checkout stations.

I frankly prefer self checkout stations over dealing with the minimum wage staff who typically run them. I can check my own items out faster than the people who work there as a career, and the lines tend to be shorter as well.

A lot of account functions that used to require a person are being automated into self help phone support with telecommunications companies. This and other automation is all happening with or without a minimum wage--only a much higher minimum wage just makes it more economical to move faster on automation.

I agree, especially with the self serve checkouts. Though one thing I hate about them is that other people go through with fucking trolley loads of shit (whereas I bike to the store and so only have an armful of stuff to fit in my bag) and take forever. Literally forever. If you have a full trolley use the fucking checkouts.

Anyway, I'm not denying that automation is reducing/reduced jobs, I'm saying that it's not going to eliminate them all in the foreseeable future (aka our lifetimes).

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01-08-2015, 08:23 PM
RE: Raising Minimum Wage - or How to Keep the Poor, Poor.
This thread has sort of turned out like an unknown offspring who showed up on your doorstep and now demands your attention................

You're attracted and horrified at the same time --- and the only thing that would make things better is it to suddenly drop dead............

It's just ugly, getting uglier.......


heh..


who am I kidding????


Have at it some more...

Keep the train wreck going......



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02-08-2015, 01:03 AM
RE: Raising Minimum Wage - or How to Keep the Poor, Poor.
(01-08-2015 07:46 PM)earmuffs Wrote:  Anyway, I'm not denying that automation is reducing/reduced jobs, I'm saying that it's not going to eliminate them all in the foreseeable future (aka our lifetimes).

What you have seen happen in the last 10 years will pale in comparison to what happens in the next 10 years. The same will go for the 10 years after that.
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