Raising Minimum Wage - or How to Keep the Poor, Poor.
Post Reply
 
Thread Rating:
  • 0 Votes - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
24-07-2015, 06:20 AM
Raising Minimum Wage - or How to Keep the Poor, Poor.
(23-07-2015 11:48 PM)Thumpalumpacus Wrote:  
(23-07-2015 08:16 AM)BnW Wrote:  Here's the problem - we are subsidizing corporations at both ends. Take the fast food industry as an example. Many of them benefit from agricultural subsidies that keep their costs down. Then, they benefit from public safety nets like food stamps. If employees at McDonald's didn't qualify for assistance, then they could not afford to work at McDonald's. So, the tax payers are picking up the delta.

It's a significant problem, but I'm not convinced simply raising the minimum wage is going to resolve it. It will mitigate the issue but it doesn't get to the root cause issues. But, it's easy to implement and understand so that's why it gets all the attention.

There you have it.

By the by, why is it okay to subsidize companies but not individuals?

Capitalism drilled so firmly in the brains of the ignorant and gullible.

Being nice is something stupid people do to hedge their bets
-Rick
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
24-07-2015, 10:17 AM
RE: Raising Minimum Wage - or How to Keep the Poor, Poor.
... or the fact that corporations have bought access to the corridors of power that those on the bottom cannot afford. Obvious, I know.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 2 users Like Thumpalumpacus's post
24-07-2015, 10:44 AM
RE: Raising Minimum Wage - or How to Keep the Poor, Poor.
(24-07-2015 10:17 AM)Thumpalumpacus Wrote:  ... or the fact that corporations have bought access to the corridors of power that those on the bottom cannot afford. Obvious, I know.

Corruption in government directly related to money in politics?!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! The capitalists will be surprised to learn of this ploy. /sarcasmfont

Being nice is something stupid people do to hedge their bets
-Rick
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes TheBeardedDude's post
24-07-2015, 02:12 PM
RE: Raising Minimum Wage - or How to Keep the Poor, Poor.
(23-07-2015 06:12 PM)MustangManda Wrote:  Some of these could be tempered, but I don't trust the politicians currently in charge to be able to adequately prepare for the consequences of their actions of doubling MW overnight, which is what some of them are advocating. I'm all for raising minimum wage, more money in the hands of people who will spend it is a great thing, and will eventually lead to higher salaries for the middle class, I just hope they do it gradually, and not to a "living wage". Although tying it to the poverty level indirectly and allowing it to increase automatically on a yearly basis with inflation could be great.

All of the plans I've seen raise it gradually over a period of 3-5 years.

#sigh
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes GirlyMan's post
24-07-2015, 07:25 PM
RE: Raising Minimum Wage - or How to Keep the Poor, Poor.
Raise the minimum wage?

We need to lower it so these guys can go from $82 billion to $160 billion.

You're gonna kill those profit margins. Drinking Beverage

[Image: kochbros110114.jpg]
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 2 users Like Matt Finney's post
24-07-2015, 07:50 PM (This post was last modified: 24-07-2015 07:55 PM by GirlyMan.)
RE: Raising Minimum Wage - or How to Keep the Poor, Poor.
(24-07-2015 07:25 PM)Matt Finney Wrote:  Raise the minimum wage?

We need to lower it so these guys can go from $82 billion to $160 billion.

You're gonna kill those profit margins. Drinking Beverage

[Image: kochbros110114.jpg]

Them Koch brother fuckers, like Trump, are liberals controlling the conservative clown show..

#sigh
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes GirlyMan's post
24-07-2015, 08:40 PM
RE: Raising Minimum Wage - or How to Keep the Poor, Poor.
The working poor is a real problem that I'm not sure either left or right has a real solution for. That $15/hr minimum wage law is getting passed in individual cities where $15/hr is actually necessary not to starve to death due to high cost of living and housing costs in said communities. It's probably best that minimum wages are only set at these selective cities at such a high rate, because setting that nationally would in fact be a disaster.

The problem with setting such a high wage, though, is that many of the retail and service jobs that earn lower wages can be automated out of existence if the human cost gets too high. ATMs already slashed bank teller jobs, and self checkout aisles at stores have had a measurable impact in reducing lower wage employees previously needed in these roles. These trends will continue in these industries and in other new ones. There's no need for a fast food order taker when a touch screen can do just as good of a job if the touchscreen costs less than the person--and with less hassle and management overhead for the people to do it. Touch screens don't need health care, vacations, breaks, or expensive job training.

Then there is the issue of housing and food subsidies for the working poor, which truly are a subsidy to the employer. But there is a good reason to provide this form of subsidy--too high of wages encourages more illegal immigration, and more outsourcing to lower labor cost markets.


So in the end, we have a combination of policies nobody much likes on the left or the right--minimum wage laws and corporate labor subsidies. And this problem of the working poor is only going to get worse as more jobs continue to become obsolete due to the advance of technology. Maybe one day we achieve that Star Trekian utopia where we've become so damn productive that almost nobody needs to work? What happens if technologically that utopian idea becomes within reach? We're nowhere near that, but larger numbers of menial laborers are frankly becoming unneeded. What do we do with them?
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes BryanS's post
26-07-2015, 10:37 AM
RE: Raising Minimum Wage - or How to Keep the Poor, Poor.
Finally have some time to get back to this post.

Anyway, before anything else, I suggest you all watch this 6 minute video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QPKKQnijnsM

The numbers in here are generated from this study.

Those numbers are not an accident (and you can do a Google search to validate them from other sources if you want). The wealth distribution in this country is the result of 30 years of "trickle down economics". The theory is that if we push wealth upwards, the richest people will create more jobs and wealth will trickle down to the rest of us. And, perhaps if we didn't otherwise interfere, that would have worked. But, a funny thing happened along the way - lobbying and incentives for the wealthy.

So, as a result, we not only subsidize corporate profits and give them incentives to move jobs overseas, we also wrote laws to completely shield their executives from any actual responsibility. CEOs get employment contracts that lock in millions of dollars in bonuses, company misses targets and all the burden is pushed down to shareholders and employees who either lose value on their investment or lose their jobs. Meanwhile, the CEO and his team have zero incentive to give a shit because they are locked into a millions in compensation regardless of outcomes and modern corporate laws make it fucking impossible to pierce the corporate veil and hold anyone who was paid to do a good job in anyway personally responsible. Pretty much just the way Adam Smith wrote it up, right?

Here's another great example of how this game works: in the early 1980s the new administration realized they had a revenue problem. Reagan didn't want to just raise taxes so instead he worked up this great scheme. He started telling people we could no longer afford social security and tapped Allan Greenspan - the same asshold who used to run the Fed - to form a commission to fix the problem. Greenspan concluded that the way to fix the problem was to simply increase the social security tax on every single American, but cap it at a ridiculously low number so the wealthy didn't over pay. But, problem solved, right? Wrong!

For the rest of his first term and all of his 2nd term, Reagan spent that extra money and put IOUs into the treasury for the social security money. Bill Clinton stopped doing that, and then walked around at the end of his presidency talking about the budget "surplus" he created". But, it wasn't a surplus. It was money that we were going to have to spend on social security and it wasn't enough to offset all the IOUs. But, technically, it showed up on the budget as a surplus. So, along comes the 2000 election an Al Gore drones on and on about the "lock box" which no one understands. George W. Bush, however, talks about giving us our money back. Woo hoo! We get out money back!! Only, it wasn't our money, because it was already supposed to pay for social security. And, the way it was paid back was in proportion to your actual tax rates, ignoring the fact that every single working American had paid the exact same rate on that money going back to 1983. But, people bought it and I actually met people who didn't have a pot to piss in who argued with me that this was "fair" that the rich got the most because, after all, they paid the most in taxes to begin with.

You want to talk about pandering, let's talk about where the pandering is really happening. It's not to the poor people making minimum wage, I assure you.

There are countless examples of how we have robbed the poor and middle class and paid the rich in this country. Hell, the 2008 financial crises saw the largest transfer of wealth in the history of mankind. Millions of poor and middle class Americans and Europeans were basically robbed at gun point by their in-country tax authorities to pay off the gambling debts of sociopathic investment bankers. They destroyed pension funds, 401ks, and they were kept completely fucking whole .. and then some. And, forget what you hear about how they paid the TARP money back. TARP was a drop in the bucket in the backroom deals they were cut.

At one point, the US tax payers took on over seven trillion dollars of liability on behalf of Wall Street. And, that number doesn't come from some crack pot with a blog. That number comes from Neil Barofsky, who was a former US Attorney and went on to be the Inspector General for the TARP program to investigate fraud. I highly recommend his book Bailout

I like you Biker. I think you are funny, witty and have some wonderful insights and contributions to this forum. I really do. You are one of the people who I always make it a point to read because so often you make me laugh or I just nod in agreement. But, when I see someone like you, who claims to be at the bottom of the income scale, complain about minimum wage being pandering and these damn poor people just want new TVs, I am disappointed that you've been so completely hood winked. We have created minimum wage for the top 1% to keep them in the top 1%. And, whenever some other economic group asks for theirs, it's "class warfare" or "socialism". I think you are seriously missing the point here.

Reminds me of a joke. A CEO, a union member and a tea party member are sitting at a table. A waiter brings a tray of a dozen cookies and, before anyone else can react, the CEO eats 11 of the cookies. He then leans over to the Tea Party member and says "better watch out for that union guy. I think he's trying to eat your cookie!".

Shackle their minds when they're bent on the cross
When ignorance reigns, life is lost
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 10 users Like BnW's post
26-07-2015, 07:47 PM
RE: Raising Minimum Wage - or How to Keep the Poor, Poor.
Top Tip.

Teach children how goverment and corporations work by taking all of their sweets off them and telling them to fuck off Thumbsup

I feel so much, and yet I feel nothing.
I am a rock, I am the sky, the birds and the trees and everything beyond.
I am the wind, in the fields in which I roar. I am the water, in which I drown.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
26-07-2015, 09:08 PM
RE: Raising Minimum Wage - or How to Keep the Poor, Poor.
(26-07-2015 07:47 PM)bemore Wrote:  Top Tip.

Teach children how goverment and corporations work by taking all of their sweets off them and telling them to fuck off Thumbsup

That's a very misguided opinion of the world. But than again it comes from you so no surprises there.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
Post Reply
Forum Jump: