Raising the Confederate Flag
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11-09-2014, 08:33 PM
RE: Raising the Confederate Flag
(11-09-2014 08:16 PM)Dunkleweizen Wrote:  
(11-09-2014 05:59 PM)Res Publica Wrote:  Hardly. The CSA was fighting against American republicanism and freedom and were anti-patriotic traitors. The penalty for death is treason so as far as I am concerned the biggest injustice of the Civil War is that not every CSA traitor was put to death.

What were they being treasonous to exactly? There was no real concept of The United States of America...most people referred to the country as the united states of America at the time.

So they hadn't figured capitalization out yet back then?

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11-09-2014, 08:45 PM
RE: Raising the Confederate Flag
(11-09-2014 08:27 AM)earmuffs Wrote:  
(11-09-2014 08:22 AM)ClydeLee Wrote:  Explain to be the rationale of how punishment for action is not bullying, but proactive punishment is bullying.

I don't deem bullying being related to having a prior cause or not.

Man: *Punches women in the face*
Women: "what was that for?"
Man: "for something you may or may not be about to do in the near future"

Read the OP again. The thing happened with the flag. The boy was punished. Two boys "protested" the next day. They were punished. The whole school was then punished. Lolwut?

And if the women starts hitting the guy back from time to time, that's not bullying how?

I understand the schools situations. I don't understand your unexplained arbitrary distinction of one case being bullying and the other case not being bullying.

Bullying isn't acting against someone for something they never did. It's a worthless metaphor or weakening of the term bullying to use it that way.

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12-09-2014, 11:56 AM
RE: Raising the Confederate Flag
(11-09-2014 01:19 AM)earmuffs Wrote:  I don't get why the whole student body was punished because two or three kids were dicks.
Teachers can be such cunts sometimes.
I agree completely. There was no reason to punish the whole school.

This reminds me of a class my daughter had last year where, whenever a kid would get in trouble, the whole class was given extra homework. Dodgy The only reason I could think of for that may have been to create peer pressure where the other kids would start pressuring the troublemaker to quit causing them more homework. Maybe the peer pressure was the thinking here too, but it's still wrong in my opinion.

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12-09-2014, 12:29 PM
RE: Raising the Confederate Flag
(10-09-2014 08:28 PM)ClydeLee Wrote:  Normally the sugar coated way they write for the confederacy is they were merely fighting for states rights. But it was their states rights to own slaves that was their main issue. Beyond that what's mentioned only a little, but was key is the impact on whose style of living would expand to the West.

Yeah, almost every time I hear the phrase "states rights" invoked, it is a dog whistle for "I want to be as shitty to [a particular group of people] as I possibly can be".

Traditionally, the notion was to prevent federal overreach, but that never seems to be how it's used, anymore.
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12-09-2014, 02:19 PM
RE: Raising the Confederate Flag
(12-09-2014 12:29 PM)RobbyPants Wrote:  Yeah, almost every time I hear the phrase "states rights" invoked, it is a dog whistle for "I want to be as shitty to [a particular group of people] as I possibly can be".

Traditionally, the notion was to prevent federal overreach, but that never seems to be how it's used, anymore.

I don't think that was really how it was ever used. The very formation of the state system was because individuals wanted to circumvent central federal rulings. It's the old federalist and anti-federalist debate.

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12-09-2014, 04:35 PM
RE: Raising the Confederate Flag
I think in this case it is far more costly for a school to seem tolerant of racism. They made the politically safe choice first and foremost. Perhaps punishing the whole student body wasn't necessary. I think the confederate flag is to controversial to be displayed in a public school.
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12-09-2014, 05:01 PM
RE: Raising the Confederate Flag
(10-09-2014 05:16 PM)WoWHead Wrote:  ... but we can't forget that to just as many people, it's viewed as a cultural heritage and a point of pride.

Sorry, but that's horseshit. Find something else to be "proud" of.
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12-09-2014, 07:19 PM
RE: Raising the Confederate Flag
(11-09-2014 08:45 PM)ClydeLee Wrote:  
(11-09-2014 08:27 AM)earmuffs Wrote:  Man: *Punches women in the face*
Women: "what was that for?"
Man: "for something you may or may not be about to do in the near future"

Read the OP again. The thing happened with the flag. The boy was punished. Two boys "protested" the next day. They were punished. The whole school was then punished. Lolwut?

And if the women starts hitting the guy back from time to time, that's not bullying how?

I understand the schools situations. I don't understand your unexplained arbitrary distinction of one case being bullying and the other case not being bullying.

Bullying isn't acting against someone for something they never did. It's a worthless metaphor or weakening of the term bullying to use it that way.

I never said it wasn't.

Because the prior was 'punishment'. The boys did something racist at a school event and then the other boys also did something racist. They were punished accordingly. They broke the rules and so were punished.
The punishing of the whole school was not punishment because it wasn't the whole school that did the offensive things. The school wanted to flex its muscles and reinstate it's position as the top dog and that it's not to be questioned. The later was bullying. I don't see how you don't see what I'm saying here.

Yes it is. No it isn't.

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13-09-2014, 05:36 PM
RE: Raising the Confederate Flag
(12-09-2014 07:19 PM)earmuffs Wrote:  
(11-09-2014 08:45 PM)ClydeLee Wrote:  And if the women starts hitting the guy back from time to time, that's not bullying how?

I understand the schools situations. I don't understand your unexplained arbitrary distinction of one case being bullying and the other case not being bullying.

Bullying isn't acting against someone for something they never did. It's a worthless metaphor or weakening of the term bullying to use it that way.

I never said it wasn't.

Because the prior was 'punishment'. The boys did something racist at a school event and then the other boys also did something racist. They were punished accordingly. They broke the rules and so were punished.
The punishing of the whole school was not punishment because it wasn't the whole school that did the offensive things. The school wanted to flex its muscles and reinstate it's position as the top dog and that it's not to be questioned. The later was bullying. I don't see how you don't see what I'm saying here.

Yes it is. No it isn't.

Bullying is using force to intimidate, dominate, or abuse.

If punishment towards kids who acted and those who didn't acted isn't different in any rational concept of what bullying is.

I don't disagree with you that it was flexing their muscles and authoritarian. It's not hard to understand why they did it, but its not a wise way to do act for a school.

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14-09-2014, 06:00 PM
RE: Raising the Confederate Flag
(11-09-2014 08:33 PM)Res Publica Wrote:  
(11-09-2014 08:16 PM)Dunkleweizen Wrote:  What were they being treasonous to exactly? There was no real concept of The United States of America...most people referred to the country as the united states of America at the time.

So they hadn't figured capitalization out yet back then?

More like a confederacy than one nation. Many viewed their own states as countries that were weakly unified with one another, a bit like the European Union.
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