Ralph Ellis. You guys heard of him? Making BIG claims.
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04-03-2013, 11:33 AM
RE: Ralph Ellis. You guys heard of him? Making BIG claims.
(04-03-2013 09:10 AM)houseofcantor Wrote:  Cool story, bro. Needs more deadly.


Plenty of 'deadly', if I read you right in your meaning. The only problem is that Christians have spread the propaganda for so long, that even the unbelievers are unwittingly influenced by it.

Thus you probably believe the story about Jesus being a carpenter (if you believe this character to be real). But that is not what the Greek text said - it calls him a tekton. But a tekton is the basis of an archi-tect, rather than a carpenter. And the reason for this, is that an Archo-Tekton can rather be interpreted as a Master Mason - as in rolled up trousers, funny handshakes and an apron.

And we know that Jesus was a Mason, rather than a carpenter, because the Raising of Lazarus is the same as a modern masonic Third Degree Initiation. Now you might say that modern Masons copied Jesus' ritual, but the liklihood for many reasons is that Jesus was himself a Mason, which is why he was called the rough ashlar, the stone that the builders rejected.


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04-03-2013, 11:39 AM
RE: Ralph Ellis. You guys heard of him? Making BIG claims.
(04-03-2013 11:23 AM)ralphellis Wrote:  This is a sample text for 'Jewish War'.
http://www.gutenberg.org/cache/epub/2850/pg2850.txt
Obviously I have 'Antiquities' already. Jewish War is new. It's an interesting story, but nothing said about any one Jesus (as there are clearly several different Jesuses listed here) appears to match the biblical account. As it's clearly a common name, how does one know that it's a story about "the" Jesus?

If it's true that this is an accurate story about Jesus of Nazareth, then it would be preferable to the biblical account for Christians, as it more accurately fulfills the prophesy from Micah 5 (which claims that he would be a war leader) and Zechariah 9 (which claims that he would "rule from sea to sea", not exactly fulfilled in Jewish War but at least closer than the bible accounts).

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04-03-2013, 11:44 AM
RE: Ralph Ellis. You guys heard of him? Making BIG claims.
(04-03-2013 11:33 AM)ralphellis Wrote:  Thus you probably believe the story about Jesus being a carpenter (if you believe this character to be real). But that is not what the Greek text said - it calls him a tekton. But a tekton is the basis of an archi-tect, rather than a carpenter. And the reason for this, is that an Archo-Tekton can rather be interpreted as a Master Mason - as in rolled up trousers, funny handshakes and an apron.

And we know that Jesus was a Mason, rather than a carpenter, because the Raising of Lazarus is the same as a modern masonic Third Degree Initiation. Now you might say that modern Masons copied Jesus' ritual, but the liklihood for many reasons is that Jesus was himself a Mason, which is why he was called the rough ashlar, the stone that the builders rejected.

This is exactly the kind of thing that makes me skeptical of you. Connecting Jesus and Freemasonry? Really?

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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04-03-2013, 12:32 PM (This post was last modified: 04-03-2013 01:10 PM by ralphellis.)
RE: Ralph Ellis. You guys heard of him? Making BIG claims.
(04-03-2013 11:39 AM)Starcrash Wrote:  . Jewish War is new. It's an interesting story, but nothing said about any one Jesus (as there are clearly several different Jesuses listed here) appears to match the biblical account. As it's clearly a common name, how does one know that it's a story about "the" Jesus?

If it's true that this is an accurate story about Jesus of Nazareth, then it would be preferable to the biblical account for Christians, as it more accurately fulfills the prophesy from Micah 5 (which claims that he would be a war leader) and Zechariah 9 (which claims that he would "rule from sea to sea", not exactly fulfilled in Jewish War but at least closer than the bible accounts).


Obviously the Jesus that is promoted by the Church (the pauper carpenter) is missing from the historical record.

But we are looking for a revolutionary; who was the leader of a new Jewish cult; who was a Nazarene; who became high priest; who married Mary Magdalene; who battled with Saul-Josephus; and who was of Egypto-Persian origins (the Persian Magi; sent to Egypt for his education; and called the Egyptian False Prophet).

It is a long and tortuous investigation, but it happens that Jesus of Gamala (Izas of Adiabene) conforms to all those points. Oh, and he has the same name too.



Oh, and if you do a comparison between the Nt and Josephus, you will also find numerous textural parallels. These include:
Both Jesus and the Egyptian False Prophet take the 5,000 out into the wilderness.
Both Jesus and the Egyptian False Prophet organise an armed uprising against Jerusalem from the Mount of Olives. The only difference in these accounts, is that the secular version says that the Egyptian (Jesus) had 30,000 armed men.
and many others besided these examples.

You can see how the gospels have distorted the secular accounts. Jesus' disciples are still armed and start a battle against the Romans, but there are only supposed to be dozen or so people on the Mount of Olives, instead of Josephus' secular account which puts the number into the tens of thousands. (The Egyptian False Prophet is Jesus of Gamala.)

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04-03-2013, 01:00 PM
RE: Ralph Ellis. You guys heard of him? Making BIG claims.
(04-03-2013 11:44 AM)Chas Wrote:  This is exactly the kind of thing that makes me skeptical of you. Connecting Jesus and Freemasonry? Really?

If you believe that Masonry started with Grand Lodge in 1717, you might be right to be skeptical. But it did not.

Masonry is a very old institution that goes back through the Templars, through the United Monarchy of David and Solomon (upon whom much of the ritual is based), and back into Egypt. The twin pillar symbolism of Masonry was not originally derived from the Temple of Solomon, but was present in many of the temples in Upper and Lower Egypt. It was also present in New York, until very recently.

If you read the Kebra Negast, the Ethiopian Bible, it clearly alludes to King Solomon being a Mason (which is what modern Masonry says). But the Kebra Negast was unknown to the West until the 18th century. Yet it clearly narrates the same story as 'modern' Masonry, which must therefore be equal in age to the Kebra Negast. And Jesus was, after all, supposed to have been a descendant of King David.

Incidentally, the Great Pyramid is often said to have been the primary and original masonic temple, as its primary chamber contains the ideal double-square dimension and an empty sarcophagus for the Third Degree ritual. But the dimensions of the King's Chamber were not known in the West until Isaac Newton did his analysis of Giza back in the late 17th century. (See "Dissertation upon the Sacred Cubit of the Jews and other Nations", by Isaac Newton.) And Masonry existed in the UK prior to this. And the First Degree tracing board is symbolic of Giza.


For these any many other reasons, we can safely assume that an organisation very similar to Masonry has existed for milennia. But, as modern Masonry openly admits, the exact ritual has been lost, especially in its grand finale (which is therefore a bit of a disappointment). Even so, you can clearly see the remenants of an Egyptian Solar cult in the modern iconography and ritual.

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04-03-2013, 01:06 PM
RE: Ralph Ellis. You guys heard of him? Making BIG claims.
(04-03-2013 01:00 PM)ralphellis Wrote:  
(04-03-2013 11:44 AM)Chas Wrote:  This is exactly the kind of thing that makes me skeptical of you. Connecting Jesus and Freemasonry? Really?

If you believe that Masonry started with Grand Lodge in 1717, you might be right to be skeptical. But it did not.

Masonry is a very old institution that goes back through the Templars, through the United Monarchy of David and Solomon (upon whom much of the ritual is based), and back into Egypt. The twin pillar symbolism of Masonry was not originally derived from the Temple of Solomon, but was present in many of the temples in Upper and Lower Egypt. It was also present in New York, until very recently.

If you read the Kebra Negast, the Ethiopian Bible, it clearly alludes to King Solomon being a Mason (which is what modern Masonry says). But the Kebra Negast was unknown to the West until the 18th century. Yet it clearly narrates the same story as 'modern' Masonry, which must therefore be equal in age to the Kebra Negast. And Jesus was, after all, supposed to have been a descendant of King David.

Incidentally, the Great Pyramid is often said to have been the primary and original masonic temple, as its primary chamber contains the ideal double-square dimension and an empty sarcophagus for the Third Degree ritual. But the dimensions of the King's Chamber were not known in the West until Isaac Newton did his analysis of Giza back in the late 17th century. (See "Dissertation upon the Sacred Cubit of the Jews and other Nations", by Isaac Newton.) And Masonry existed in the UK prior to this. And the First Degree tracing board is symbolic of Giza.


For these any many other reasons, we can safely assume that an organisation very similar to Masonry has existed for milennia. But, as modern Masonry openly admits, the exact ritual has been lost, especially in its grand finale (which is therefore a bit of a disappointment). Even so, you can clearly see the remenants of an Egyptian Solar cult in the modern iconography and ritual.

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An organization formed in the Middle Ages or later used ancient myth on which to base its rituals. There is no evidence of an organization that was continuous from ancient Egypt.

Much of your writings are like this. Drawing unwarranted conclusions from very tenuous 'evidence'.

I remain highly skeptical of your assertions.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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04-03-2013, 01:13 PM
RE: Ralph Ellis. You guys heard of him? Making BIG claims.
(04-03-2013 12:32 PM)ralphellis Wrote:  Obviously the Jesus that is promoted by the Church (the pauper carpenter) is missing from the historical record.

But we are looking for a revolutionary; who was the leader of a new Jewish cult; who was a Nazarene; who became high priest; who married Mary Magdalene; and who was of Egypto-Persian origins (Persian Magi, sent to Egypt for his education, called the Egyptian False Prophet).

It is a long and tortuous investigation, but it happens that Jesus of Gamala (Izas of Adiabene) conforms to all those points. Oh, and he has the same name too.

You're trying to place someone you already believe exists into history.
You find a guy who kinda fits what you are looking for and upon examining his life, you then try to overlay your fictional character on to him.
Yes, the Jesus promoted by the Church, promoted by the bible is missing from the historical record.
And you are trying to put him into the historical record by changing his name. "Jesus was REALLY this other guy John of Gamala"

I respect the amount of work you've done toward this endeavor as much as I respect someone who has spent their life's work dedicated to Han Solo.

After your 10 books, I'm sure by now you realize that religion isn't about truth. It's about what you believe to be true.
You can uncover as much "truth" as you like but if the masses don't believe it, it doesn't amount to a hill of beans.

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04-03-2013, 01:16 PM
RE: Ralph Ellis. You guys heard of him? Making BIG claims.
(04-03-2013 01:06 PM)Chas Wrote:  An organization formed in the Middle Ages or later used ancient myth on which to base its rituals. There is no evidence of an organization that was continuous from ancient Egypt.

Prove that Masonry was a Medieval conception. Many of your rebuttals are like this. Drawing unwarranted conclusions from very tenuous 'evidence'.

As a Mason, I would beg to differ. Incidentally, in many lodges there is no conflict between being an Atheist and a Mason. For complex reasons.

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04-03-2013, 01:20 PM
RE: Ralph Ellis. You guys heard of him? Making BIG claims.
(04-03-2013 01:16 PM)ralphellis Wrote:  
(04-03-2013 01:06 PM)Chas Wrote:  An organization formed in the Middle Ages or later used ancient myth on which to base its rituals. There is no evidence of an organization that was continuous from ancient Egypt.

Prove that Masonry was a Medieval conception. Many of your rebuttals are like this. Drawing unwarranted conclusions from very tenuous 'evidence'.

As a Mason, I would beg to differ. Incidentally, in many lodges there is no conflict between being an Atheist and a Mason. For complex reasons.

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I am not the one asserting that Freemasonry is ancient. You have not proved your case.

Modern Freemasonry was founded, at least partly, on the medieval masons' guilds that built the cathedrals.

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Science is not a subject, but a method.
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04-03-2013, 01:33 PM (This post was last modified: 04-03-2013 01:36 PM by ralphellis.)
RE: Ralph Ellis. You guys heard of him? Making BIG claims.
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(04-03-2013 01:13 PM)Rahn127 Wrote:  You're trying to place someone you already believe exists into history.
You find a guy who kinda fits what you are looking for and upon examining his life, you then try to overlay your fictional character on to him.
Yes, the Jesus promoted by the Church, promoted by the bible is missing from the historical record.
And you are trying to put him into the historical record by changing his name. "Jesus was REALLY this other guy John of Gamala"

I respect the amount of work you've done toward this endeavor as much as I respect someone who has spent their life's work dedicated to Han Solo.

After your 10 books, I'm sure by now you realize that religion isn't about truth. It's about what you believe to be true.
You can uncover as much "truth" as you like but if the masses don't believe it, it doesn't amount to a hill of beans.


I am not a 'believer'.
I don't believe anything about the Tanakh or Gospels.

These are merely texts that have great historical value. If Egyptologists found an 18th dynasty pot containing numerous text, they would be trying to interpret every single word. The Torah and Tanakh is that very same 18th dynasty text, but because it is 'religious' Egyptologists will not touch it. Same goes for the NT. It is a record of the 1st century, if you know how to interpret it.


You have two choices here.
Either the gospels are a complete fabrication, and that is why Jesus is missing from the historical record.
Or
The story was based upon historical fact.

But if the latter is in any way true, then we must be able to find this guy. We have a complete history of 1st century Judaea, and so he cannot have been missed by Josephus or the Syriac historians.



(04-03-2013 01:13 PM)Rahn127 Wrote:  And you are trying to put him into the historical record by changing his name. "Jesus was REALLY this other guy John of Gamala"

Err no. I think you will find that Jesus of Gamala has the same name as the biblical Jesus.

And the fact that Jesus was also called Izas is hardly surprising. Josephus was dealing with three or four languages here - Latin, Greek, Aramaic, and Parthian. This is why so many of the disciples have so many names. But this does imply that the name 'Jesus' was descented from the Parthian name Izates or Izas, rather than from the Aramaic Joshua. And since Jesus is still called Issa in Arabia, I think my derivation is the more likely.

Try these multiple names, as examples.

Simon Peter Cephas (Simon stone stone)
Simon Zelotes the Canaanite (Simon the fanatic fanatic)
and also try,
Judas Thomas Didymas Labbaeus Thaddaeus Addai Yes, this is all recorded as the same individual, but with multiple titles and languages.


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