Ralph Ellis. You guys heard of him? Making BIG claims.
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07-03-2013, 02:38 AM
RE: Ralph Ellis. You guys heard of him? Making BIG claims.
(05-03-2013 11:25 PM)morondog Wrote:  Then again, if zee dude hath madeth the money off ten books of kookiness, then for him to suddenly see the light of who's got the burden of proof doesn't make financial sense Tongue

Some people don't understand altruism. The ten books have so far COST me some $200,000 to produce, not including my time and effort - with no returns. The lot of the small publisher or unknown author is not always a happy one. But I content myself by knowing that society is much better off, if it knows the truth.

.
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07-03-2013, 02:43 AM
RE: Ralph Ellis. You guys heard of him? Making BIG claims.
(06-03-2013 12:28 AM)Rahn127 Wrote:  Ralph - Coming to an atheist forum might not have been the best move for your ego.

But you sir are not skeptical, nor an atheist, nor very insightful, nor very knowledgeable about anything beyond what you've been mired in for the past 30 years.

Use your time here as a wake up call. Re-evaluate your epistemology.

You know me better than I do?

I have been an Atheist since the age of seven, which is probably earlier than yourself. There is no almighty god, but there ARE historical events. You should not conflate the two, as the theists have done.

.
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07-03-2013, 02:55 AM
RE: Ralph Ellis. You guys heard of him? Making BIG claims.
Hey Ralph, I downloaded "Jesus, King of Edessa" but I don't think that's the one with your Paul=Josephus argument in it. Which one is please?
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07-03-2013, 03:04 AM (This post was last modified: 07-03-2013 03:15 AM by ralphellis.)
RE: Ralph Ellis. You guys heard of him? Making BIG claims.
(06-03-2013 03:40 AM)Mark Fulton Wrote:  Hi Ralph,

Well....some common ground....I too believe that Jesus, if he ever existed, was a political activist knocked off by the Romans.

You think "Paul" and Josephus were the same person? Wow! Um...never heard that before. Your evidence? Here's my 2c worth...I think Paul was a Roman government agent. I can provide some circumstantial evidence for that if you are interested. I think Josephus helped create the gospels, but post circa 70 CE, which probably was when Paul (who I don't think was the same person as Josephus) was dead or no longer doing his thing.

Ha, so do I.

I have said that Josephus was a Roman spy, and his handler was Vespasian. This is why, among many reasons, when Josephus defected Vespasian said something along the lines of 'why did it take you so long?'





(06-03-2013 03:40 AM)Mark Fulton Wrote:  In my opinion, Paul and Josephus are clearly 2 different authors. Josephus was an historian, a pragmatist, a realist. When one reads Josephus, one gets straight forward factual commentary. "Paul" was a propagandist (as was Josephus), but he was also a dreamer, deluded, manipulative, anxious , irrational, inconsistent, pig headed, and a bore. To read Paul is to go on an emotional and mental roller coaster ride...and never quite understand what the fuck he's on about.

There are differences in style, but there are also many similarities. If you read Luke and Acts and compare against Josephus, you will see many common elements and texts. And you will also note that both Josephus and Saul had the same 'publisher' - Epaphroditus.


You may be put off conflating Saul with Josephus, because of the seemingly different eras here. However, the biblical events did not take place in the AD 30s, they took place in the AD 60s. So the 'minor' revolution that Jesus was a part of, was the Jewish Revolt of AD 68. And the leader of that revolt is given by Josephus Flavius as alternately being Jesus of Gamala or Izas of Adiabene. (ie, the biblical Jesus)

Everything in the biblical accounts supports that later date, including the gospel description of the siege of Jerusalem, and Prof Eisenman's equation of Mary-Martha Boethus with the biblical Mary and Martha of Bethany (ie: Mary Magdalene).

As an aside, the Talmud says that Jesus of Gamala married Mary-Martha Boethus - and perhaps I need not point out that this was the biblical Jesus marrying Mary Magdalene. Mary-Martha then bought the position of High Priest of Jerusalem for Jesus (according to the Talmud), with 75 kilos of silver. And in a similar fashion, Hebrews 7 says that Jesus became the first elected high priest of Jerusalem.

And this later date for the gospels compliments the conflation of Saul (St Paul) and Josephus Flavius very nicely. Check out their ill-fated trips to Rome, where they were both shipwrecked, and you will see that they were the same person. Everything about the life of Saul, dovetails with the life of Josephus. And once conflated you will see that:

a. Saul was chasing Jesus around Galilee, arresting his compatriots. (Saul, Saul, why are you persecuting me?)
b. Josephus was chasing Jesus around Galilee, arresting his compatriots. (Jesus of Gamala)

Under what authority was Saul allowed to arrest people? It is not said. However, with Saul being Josephus we now know exactly why. Josephus became the army commander in charge of Galilee in the mid-AD 60s, and he was indeed arresting the followers of Jesus (Jesus of Gamala).


.

You might like to read Joseph Atwil, as he also conflates Saul and Josephus, but with different proofs to myself.
My conflation is all contained in the book "King Jesus" - although I first floated this idea back in '98 in an earlier book. I was the first to make this comparison, but more authors have joined in since.


If you are thinking of publishing, getting a publisher is very difficult. And I had one publisher (Random House) who thought it would be a good wheeze just to plagiarise my book instead of buying it (they lifted 70 pages). This went to court and then to Parliament, and Random House got raided by the Met, ho, ho. Finally, they settled out of court. Thus far, I have made more money from the courts, than from the books !

Nowadays you have an easier option. Get the book epubbed, and sell it on Tablets. No printing, no stock, no warehousing, no transport, no publisher, no 'shrinkage', no invoicing .... it is a whole lot easier.

Good luck,
Ralph.
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07-03-2013, 03:07 AM
RE: Ralph Ellis. You guys heard of him? Making BIG claims.
(07-03-2013 02:55 AM)Mark Fulton Wrote:  Hey Ralph, I downloaded "Jesus, King of Edessa" but I don't think that's the one with your Paul=Josephus argument in it. Which one is please?

It was originally in 'Jesus, Last of the Pharaohs', just as a chapter.

But so many people said 'this is impossible', that I went back and made a complete 600 page analysis of the problem. This is "King Jesus", and I think I settled the issue there. "Jesus of Edessa" is the sequel to this book, so you can just keep on reading.... ;-)

Hope you enjoy the journey.

.
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07-03-2013, 03:59 AM
RE: Ralph Ellis. You guys heard of him? Making BIG claims.
(07-03-2013 02:38 AM)ralphellis Wrote:  
(05-03-2013 11:25 PM)morondog Wrote:  Then again, if zee dude hath madeth the money off ten books of kookiness, then for him to suddenly see the light of who's got the burden of proof doesn't make financial sense Tongue

Some people don't understand altruism. The ten books have so far COST me some $200,000 to produce, not including my time and effort - with no returns. The lot of the small publisher or unknown author is not always a happy one. But I content myself by knowing that society is much better off, if it knows the truth.

.
What do historians in the scientific world say of your writings ? Altruistic you may be but what is their opinion of your scholarship ?
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07-03-2013, 04:02 AM (This post was last modified: 07-03-2013 04:48 AM by Mark Fulton.)
RE: Ralph Ellis. You guys heard of him? Making BIG claims.
(07-03-2013 03:04 AM)ralphellis Wrote:  
(06-03-2013 03:40 AM)Mark Fulton Wrote:  Hi Ralph,

Well....some common ground....I too believe that Jesus, if he ever existed, was a political activist knocked off by the Romans.

You think "Paul" and Josephus were the same person? Wow! Um...never heard that before. Your evidence? Here's my 2c worth...I think Paul was a Roman government agent. I can provide some circumstantial evidence for that if you are interested. I think Josephus helped create the gospels, but post circa 70 CE, which probably was when Paul (who I don't think was the same person as Josephus) was dead or no longer doing his thing.

Ha, so do I.

I have said that Josephus was a Roman spy, and his handler was Vespasian. This is why, among many reasons, when Josephus defected Vespasian said something along the lines of 'why did it take you so long?'





(06-03-2013 03:40 AM)Mark Fulton Wrote:  In my opinion, Paul and Josephus are clearly 2 different authors. Josephus was an historian, a pragmatist, a realist. When one reads Josephus, one gets straight forward factual commentary. "Paul" was a propagandist (as was Josephus), but he was also a dreamer, deluded, manipulative, anxious , irrational, inconsistent, pig headed, and a bore. To read Paul is to go on an emotional and mental roller coaster ride...and never quite understand what the fuck he's on about.

There are differences in style, but there are also many similarities. If you read Luke and Acts and compare against Josephus, you will see many common elements and texts. And you will also note that both Josephus and Saul had the same 'publisher' - Epaphroditus.


You may be put off conflating Saul with Josephus, because of the seemingly different eras here. However, the biblical events did not take place in the AD 30s, they took place in the AD 60s. So the 'minor' revolution that Jesus was a part of, was the Jewish Revolt of AD 68. And the leader of that revolt is given by Josephus Flavius as alternately being Jesus of Gamala or Izas of Adiabene. (ie, the biblical Jesus)

Everything in the biblical accounts supports that later date, including the gospel description of the siege of Jerusalem, and Prof Eisenman's equation of Mary-Martha Boethus with the biblical Mary and Martha of Bethany (ie: Mary Magdalene).

As an aside, the Talmud says that Jesus of Gamala married Mary-Martha Boethus - and perhaps I need not point out that this was the biblical Jesus marrying Mary Magdalene. Mary-Martha then bought the position of High Priest of Jerusalem for Jesus (according to the Talmud), with 75 kilos of silver. And in a similar fashion, Hebrews 7 says that Jesus became the first elected high priest of Jerusalem.

And this later date for the gospels compliments the conflation of Saul (St Paul) and Josephus Flavius very nicely. Check out their ill-fated trips to Rome, where they were both shipwrecked, and you will see that they were the same person. Everything about the life of Saul, dovetails with the life of Josephus. And once conflated you will see that:

a. Saul was chasing Jesus around Galilee, arresting his compatriots. (Saul, Saul, why are you persecuting me?)
b. Josephus was chasing Jesus around Galilee, arresting his compatriots. (Jesus of Gamala)

Under what authority was Saul allowed to arrest people? It is not said. However, with Saul being Josephus we now know exactly why. Josephus became the army commander in charge of Galilee in the mid-AD 60s, and he was indeed arresting the followers of Jesus (Jesus of Gamala).


.

You might like to read Joseph Atwil, as he also conflates Saul and Josephus, but with different proofs to myself.
My conflation is all contained in the book "King Jesus" - although I first floated this idea back in '98 in an earlier book. I was the first to make this comparison, but more authors have joined in since.


If you are thinking of publishing, getting a publisher is very difficult. And I had one publisher (Random House) who thought it would be a good wheeze just to plagiarise my book instead of buying it (they lifted 70 pages). This went to court and then to Parliament, and Random House got raided by the Met, ho, ho. Finally, they settled out of court. Thus far, I have made more money from the courts, than from the books !

Nowadays you have an easier option. Get the book epubbed, and sell it on Tablets. No printing, no stock, no warehousing, no transport, no publisher, no 'shrinkage', no invoicing .... it is a whole lot easier.

Good luck,
Ralph.
Hi Ralph,

re "you will see many common elements and texts. And you will also note
that both Josephus and Saul had the same 'publisher' - Epaphroditus."
That's interesting...I didn't know that.

I will download your other book, so that I get your whole argument about Paul being Josephus, as I'm not convinced at present. You touched on the fact that there are some striking similarities between Paul's life and the life of Josephus, but does that necessarily mean that they are the same person? For example it is well-recognised that the story of Paul's life as related in Acts is largely fictional... is it not possible that details of Paul's life were copied from Josephus' life story? Are you proposing that Josephus wrote the book of Acts too?

I found no evidence that Acts was written in the first century. If it was only written in the early second century surely that would put it way beyond the time of Josephus, so he couldn't be the author. What do you think?

Ralph, I haven't read all of Josephus' works in their entirety, so I may be displaying some ignorance here, but I think your comments on the following would be helpful. I was always under the impression that Josephus claimed that Vespasian was in fact the Messiah. You also say that Josephus claims that Jesus of Gamala was the leader of the revolt. Surely there were many leaders of the revolt that resulted in the first Jewish war. John was one, Simon was another and Menahem was another. They fought bitterly with each other. This information comes primarily from Josephus himself.

At the moment I find it very difficult to buy this story that Jesus was able to buy the position of high priest. If he was a political activist (which both you and I think he was,) surely the Romans would have some inkling of this. Jerusalem was a hotbed of political dissent during the 60s. It was the Romans who chose who was to be the high priest (I assume you agree with this). They wouldn't have chosen Jesus, but I'm happy to listen to what you say here. I guess it is just possible. If this story is in the Talmud, surely other scholars must have noted it?

Also, if we are to accept the fact that there are grains of truth in the Gospels, what about the fact that Jesus spent a fair bit of his time wandering around Gallilee preaching to the crowds. That is not what a high priest did in the 60s, as he was rich and comfortable and settled in Jerusalem. The high priests derived much of the income from taxation, which was often collected in the temple, and Jesus is said to have overturned the tables in the temple. How do you explain that? If he was the high priest, and for some reason he was pissed off with the money changers, wouldn't he have had his henchmen overturn the tables?

Moving on a little, I've always found it a bit hard to buy the story that Paul was an active persecutor of the earliest disciples of Jesus. You quite rightly pointed out that the question must be asked "under whose jurisdiction would he have done that?" This is how I addressed this little issue in my book.


"Paul’s Early Opposition to the Followers of
Jesus

The Bible’s first mention of Paul is in Acts, where he’s portrayed as a devout Pharisee. He’s said to be a bitter persecutor
of the early followers of Jesus in Jerusalem. In my opinion this was unlikely. Pharisees commonly argued with other Jews over the interpretation of scripture, yet they didn’t physically attack those who held different opinions. In the book of Acts the author even relates an incident in which Peter (a disciple of Jesus) was saved by Gamaliel, the leader of the Pharisees, from being sentenced to death by the Sadducees (Acts 5:37). You don’t save someone from persecution if you’re persecuting him. The disciples, family, and other followers of Yeshua lived reasonably harmoniously next to Pharisees in Jerusalem for decades after the death of Yeshua. There was no particular reason not to, because both
parties were firm upholders of the Jewish Law.


The Sadducees, or high priests, occasionally physically persecuted the supporters of Yeshua, (James was murdered under the order of the High Priest in 62 CE), by whom they would have felt threatened, as suggested by the above-mentioned scenario (in Acts 5:37). If Paul did, in fact, physically attack Yeshua’s followers, he would have done so only under the orders of the Sadducees, who were allied to the Roman establishment.


Yeshua’s followers lived in Jerusalem under James’ leadership and increased their numbers in the decades after Yeshua’s
death, so any persecution can’t have been too protracted."


It's funny that you mention Joseph Atwill, please check out the other thread in which you have contributed about the historicity of Jesus. I talk about Atwill's ideas there. I must admit, I thought I had read His book quite thoroughly on a number of occasions, and I don't remember him saying that he thought Paul and Josephus were the same person. If he did say that I missed it.


I haven't even tried to get a publisher. I'm going to have a go at self publishing, but I have a healthy respect for my own inadequacies and don't have any realistic dreams that I'm going to make any money. It would be nice though!
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07-03-2013, 04:22 AM
RE: Ralph Ellis. You guys heard of him? Making BIG claims.
Hey Ralph...re

"However, the biblical events did not take place in the AD 30s, they took place in the AD 60s"

Which "biblical events?" Obviously Jesus wandering around Gallilee and preaching to crowds of thousands for anything from 1 to 3 years didn't occur in the 60s if he was the high priest in Jerusalem. Obviously Palm Sunday when Jesus allegedly rode into Jerusalem as a king didn't occur in the year 70 because Jerusalem was surrounded by 50,000 Roman troops at that time. I agree that the so-called trial and crucifixion, albeit a failed one, could have occurred in the year 70, but nothing else seems to fit into this timeframe of yours.

Please don't think that I'm being deliberately negative, I just think that probably many other people like myself would like to hear from you how you justify your arguments.
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07-03-2013, 04:41 AM
RE: Ralph Ellis. You guys heard of him? Making BIG claims.
(21-03-2012 03:30 PM)Denicio Wrote:  You guys heard of this Ralph Ellis character????

http://www.amazon.com/Ralph-Ellis/e/B003...r_dp_pel_1

Ralph Ellis has been researching biblical and Egyptian history for more than 30 years. Being independent from theological and educational establishments allows Ralph to tread where others do not dare, and it is through this independence that Ralph has discovered so many new biblical and historical truths.

Perhaps one of the biggest 'cover-ups' is the fact that the Israelites were originally Egyptians, the Hyksos Shepherd pharaohs who were ejected from Egypt in the 17th century BC. But this simple correlation colours the rest of biblical history, for it means that both King Solomon and King Jesus were also of Egyptian heritage.


A pal of mine send me a text telling me I MUST check out a youtube video on this guy...as Ralph has found evidence of Jesus in Egyptian Historical Records.
Now, i have yet to do any real research on this guy. BUT before i did, i wondered if anyone here knows of him and has info that might save me a bit of time (ie..he's a quack and conspiracy freak etc etc).

Anyone else heard of him?

Denicio
Which youtube video please? There's quite a few! Thanks!
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07-03-2013, 05:33 AM
RE: Ralph Ellis. You guys heard of him? Making BIG claims.
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