Rampant and Jeremy and the Kalam
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24-05-2014, 10:46 PM
RE: Rampant and Jeremy and the Kalam
"Michael I choose not to debate the issue any longer.
If you think that acts like child molestation are not objectively wrong and that its ok if someone thinks it is ok, then that is on you. For your own safety, I would keep that to myself if I were you.
I would say that if everyone thought that there was no obligation except to do whatever they wanted whenever they wanted and however they wanted, then life would be unlivable and if the existential ramifications are such, then there is no reason to hold to the metaphysical position which defends it.
Consider this thread closed."

So then.
He did tell us he "converted', and Jebus saved his sorry ass.
In light of that, and what he said above, I guess the logical conclusion would be that he's admitting here that his experience of non-belief included child molestation.
I wonder how many children he molested before he got all holy roller ?

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein God has a plan for us. Please stop screwing it up with your prayers.
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24-05-2014, 10:50 PM
RE: Rampant and Jeremy and the Kalam
Hey Jeremy Walker why do you believe Jesus is better than krishna?
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24-05-2014, 11:01 PM
RE: Rampant and Jeremy and the Kalam
"Different societies which have progressed independently still adopt a strikingly similar core set of moral values (i.e. with respect to lying, theft, murder, etc.). History is pretty clear on this."

"I never made this claim. But since you think I have, simply reference it"


Dude has dementia.

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein God has a plan for us. Please stop screwing it up with your prayers.
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24-05-2014, 11:12 PM
RE: Rampant and Jeremy and the Kalam
(24-05-2014 03:29 PM)Jeremy E Walker Wrote:  Kalam

Premise 1

1. Everything that begins to exist has a cause.
a. something cannot come from nothing. - René Descartes > Meditations on First Philosophy

Let us start here.
This proves what again ? I can say the same thing about your god . Why do you think your god came from nothing? Why do you think your god is without a cause ?
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24-05-2014, 11:20 PM
RE: Rampant and Jeremy and the Kalam
Regardless of how he answers the question, a god which "exists" and is a "being" (he did imply yesterday that his deity exists "of necessity" as opposed to "contingently"), is a deity which *must* participate in a Reality that is not all of, or total Reality. A deity which MUST as long as it existed, participate by definition in a sub-set of Reality, can't be the creator of Reality. The deity would "experience" Reality. The question is "Where did Reality come from ?"

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25-05-2014, 12:40 AM (This post was last modified: 25-05-2014 01:09 PM by ShirubaDangan.)
RE: Rampant and Jeremy and the Kalam
(24-05-2014 03:29 PM)Jeremy E Walker Wrote:  Kalam

Premise 1

1. Everything that begins to exist has a cause.
a. something cannot come from nothing. - René Descartes > Meditations on First Philosophy

Let us start here.





I understand this is from a biased source but I will present a link to the entire debate which I enjoy. It is an interesting debate and one I believe resembled the Bill Nye vs Ken Ham debate which reveals Craig's lack of knowledge in physics.

Now I understand Craig is not you but the Kalam argument has a blatant flaw which I hope for you to answer. If everything has to have a beginning, what is God's beginning? You place this argument and yet have to answer the problem with being religious and having this stance. I cannot accept this flaw and if you simply state God is eternal and has always been here why can't you go one step further and simply say the universe has always been here and is eternal? What is your evidence that God is eternal and has always existed? And what is the evidence that God didn't need to be created? You state everything that exist must have some sort of cause and if something cannot come from nothing then doesn't this create a problem with God?

I don't believe the Kalam argument is sound and I wish for you to expand more then your simple definition. I don't take it seriously of this time and hope you can change that with any evidence for it.





Oh yes, and here is the full debate.

"Mankind must put an end to war, or war will put an end to mankind." -John F Kennedy

The way to see by Faith is to shut the eye of Reason.” -Benjamin Franklin

It has been a long time. How have you been?
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25-05-2014, 01:35 AM
RE: Rampant and Jeremy and the Kalam
(24-05-2014 10:16 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  
(24-05-2014 10:11 PM)Taqiyya Mockingbird Wrote:  .....except Michael never said anything at all about child molestation or "do whatever you want whenever you want", etc.


LOL. Chalk up another train wreck for Jermy...

That's just the usual emotionally charged reductio ad absurdam clap-trap of Presuppositionists like Germey who, without demonstrating it, expect us to accept that morality comes from the gods.

He's getting even more desperate. I can see him, paging (rifling) through his manual on "How to deal with the heathen, with great success and all that crap".
Hopefully he's getting towards the end. He's not said one thing original yet.

That last post made me very sad. His back was up against a wall, and he lashed out. For whatever reason Jeremy needs to believe what he believes. There were many times I was hoping the fog might clear and the lights would come on, but I think he will rationalize all this away and continue as he was before. There is clearly a lot of fear and uncertainty motivating him. Without trying to sound condescending, I genuinely feel very sorry for him.
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25-05-2014, 07:02 AM
RE: Rampant and Jeremy and the Kalam
So does this mean that Jeremy is free for another boxing match?

If so then I'm gonna make him an offer he can't refuse.
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25-05-2014, 09:26 AM
RE: Rampant and Jeremy and the Kalam
(25-05-2014 07:02 AM)Mathilda Wrote:  So does this mean that Jeremy is free for another boxing match?

If so then I'm gonna make him an offer he can't refuse.

Yes, it does! Anyone can have two going at once.

I predict a Knockout in <5 posts.

It's Special Pleadings all the way down!


Magic Talking Snakes STFU -- revenantx77


You can't have your special pleading and eat it too. -- WillHop
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25-05-2014, 09:32 AM
RE: Rampant and Jeremy and the Kalam
(24-05-2014 11:01 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  "Different societies which have progressed independently still adopt a strikingly similar core set of moral values (i.e. with respect to lying, theft, murder, etc.). History is pretty clear on this."

"I never made this claim. But since you think I have, simply reference it"


Dude has dementia.

LOL -- first of all, this generalization that "different societies adopt a 'strikingly similar core set of moral values'" is not only an overly broad and fallacious generalization, it's a lie as well. For it to be relevant in a claim of "objective moral values", then ALL societies EVERYWHERE would have to develop EXACTLY the same "values", right down the line. There would be NO NEED for laws, as every person everywhere would hold to the same "moral values and duties" naturally, on their own, and without any "outside" suggestion or influence.

There would be no wars, no political conflict, no nations, nothing to divide us by ideology, because everyone on the planet would all hold exactly the same values.

It's Special Pleadings all the way down!


Magic Talking Snakes STFU -- revenantx77


You can't have your special pleading and eat it too. -- WillHop
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