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29-07-2013, 09:45 AM
Introduction
Hello Independent Atheists. I am a newly converted Buddhist and avid reader of all things dealing with Quantum Mechanics. I would love to get your comment to the following points:

Michael Sherman from the Skeptics Society stated that if God did not require being created, logic dictates that the Universe also did not require a Creation. That is not necessarily true. The Universe is a physical and materiel place composed of Matter, Energy and Gravity - all of which require being created. A Supreme Consciousness is not physical and does not require creation. In fact, if you are a follower of the Copenhagen (Niels Bohr) interpretation of Quantum Mechanics - It is Consciousness that creates Matter. Lawrence Krauss has stated in 'Scientific American' magazine that Nothing (no space, no time, no gravity) is unstable. And that like all unstable systems 'Nothing' will collapse and become 'something'. Thus the Universe, according to Krauss, did not require a Creator. My only question is: In a nothingness with no time - how long did it take until the unstableness of 'Nothing' collapsed and became 'something' or as we think of it - 'The Big Bang'. I suppose you can believe this or not believe it depending on how strong your faith in Atheism is[/size][/font]. Why do people experiencing an NDE only meet Relatives who have passed on and not living Relatives. Apparently the Mind is capable of projecting a false image of a dead Relative but it cannot project a false image of a living Relative. In experiments conducted by Dean Radin an Experimenter held pics behind a wall 50% of the time. Subjects guessed correctly 50% of the time as to wether the Experimenter was holding a pic. What you would get from random chance. However when the pics were sexually erotic pics, subjects guessed correctly between 52 to 53% of the time - a statistically significant difference. And yes, these experiments were repeatable. As to the often asked question - Who created God ? The answer given by most Philosopher Theists is: 'God exists by necessity of his own nature'.
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29-07-2013, 09:52 AM
RE: Introduction
I've never studied much about Buddhism, but I don't think the answer of 'God exists by necessity of his own nature' is any better than "God has always existed."

It doesn't answer the question of how or why.

“Science is simply common sense at its best, that is, rigidly accurate in observation, and merciless to fallacy in logic.”
—Thomas Henry Huxley
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29-07-2013, 10:07 AM (This post was last modified: 29-07-2013 10:15 AM by KidCharlemagne1962.)
RE: Introduction
(29-07-2013 09:45 AM)Buddhist Alternative Wrote:  Hello Independent Atheists. I am a newly converted Buddhist and avid reader of all things dealing with Quantum Mechanics. I would love to get your comment to the following points:

Michael Sherman from the Skeptics Society stated that if God did not require being created, logic dictates that the Universe also did not require a Creation. That is not necessarily true. The Universe is a physical and materiel place composed of Matter, Energy and Gravity - all of which require being created. A Supreme Consciousness is not physical and does not require creation. In fact, if you are a follower of the Copenhagen (Niels Bohr) interpretation of Quantum Mechanics - It is Consciousness that creates Matter. Lawrence Krauss has stated in 'Scientific American' magazine that Nothing (no space, no time, no gravity) is unstable. And that like all unstable systems 'Nothing' will collapse and become 'something'. Thus the Universe, according to Krauss, did not require a Creator. My only question is: In a nothingness with no time - how long did it take until the unstableness of 'Nothing' collapsed and became 'something' or as we think of it - 'The Big Bang'. I suppose you can believe this or not believe it depending on how strong your faith in Atheism is[/size][/font]. Why do people experiencing an NDE only meet Relatives who have passed on and not living Relatives. Apparently the Mind is capable of projecting a false image of a dead Relative but it cannot project a false image of a living Relative. In experiments conducted by Dean Radin an Experimenter held pics behind a wall 50% of the time. Subjects guessed correctly 50% of the time as to wether the Experimenter was holding a pic. What you would get from random chance. However when the pics were sexually erotic pics, subjects guessed correctly between 52 to 53% of the time - a statistically significant difference. And yes, these experiments were repeatable. As to the often asked question - Who created God ? The answer given by most Philosopher Theists is: 'God exists by necessity of his own nature'.

I'd like to see what Shermer and Krauss said in it's entirety.

So my take on the Big Bang is due to my atheism...thanks, I didn't know that.Consider

I think I can sum up this entire post with the title of a chapter from God is Not Great, "There is no Eastern Solution".Drinking Beverage

" Generally speaking, the errors in religion are dangerous; those in philosophy only ridiculous."
David Hume
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29-07-2013, 10:14 AM
RE: Introduction
It is also Micheal Shermer, not Sherman.

“Science is simply common sense at its best, that is, rigidly accurate in observation, and merciless to fallacy in logic.”
—Thomas Henry Huxley
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29-07-2013, 10:22 AM
RE: Introduction
(29-07-2013 09:45 AM)Buddhist Alternative Wrote:  Hello Independent Atheists. I am a newly converted Buddhist and avid reader of all things dealing with Quantum Mechanics. I would love to get your comment to the following points:

Michael Sherman from the Skeptics Society stated that if God did not require being created, logic dictates that the Universe also did not require a Creation. That is not necessarily true. The Universe is a physical and materiel place composed of Matter, Energy and Gravity - all of which require being created. A Supreme Consciousness is not physical and does not require creation. In fact, if you are a follower of the Copenhagen (Niels Bohr) interpretation of Quantum Mechanics - It is Consciousness that creates Matter. Lawrence Krauss has stated in 'Scientific American' magazine that Nothing (no space, no time, no gravity) is unstable. And that like all unstable systems 'Nothing' will collapse and become 'something'. Thus the Universe, according to Krauss, did not require a Creator. My only question is: In a nothingness with no time - how long did it take until the unstableness of 'Nothing' collapsed and became 'something' or as we think of it - 'The Big Bang'. I suppose you can believe this or not believe it depending on how strong your faith in Atheism is[/size][/font]. Why do people experiencing an NDE only meet Relatives who have passed on and not living Relatives. Apparently the Mind is capable of projecting a false image of a dead Relative but it cannot project a false image of a living Relative. In experiments conducted by Dean Radin an Experimenter held pics behind a wall 50% of the time. Subjects guessed correctly 50% of the time as to wether the Experimenter was holding a pic. What you would get from random chance. However when the pics were sexually erotic pics, subjects guessed correctly between 52 to 53% of the time - a statistically significant difference. And yes, these experiments were repeatable. As to the often asked question - Who created God ? The answer given by most Philosopher Theists is: 'God exists by necessity of his own nature'.

Welcome. Looks like you will find a lot of lively debate here. Enjoy! Smile

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Science is the process we've designed to be responsible for generating our best guess as to what the fuck is going on. Girly Man
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29-07-2013, 10:24 AM
RE: Random Thoughts
(29-07-2013 10:00 AM)Buddhist Alternative Wrote:  Michael Sherman from the Skeptics Society stated that if God did not require being created, logic dictates that the Universe also did not require a Creation. That is not necessarily true. The Universe is a physical and materiel place composed of Matter, Energy and Gravity - all of which require being created. A Supreme Consciousness is not physical and does not require creation. In fact, if you are a follower of the Copenhagen (Niels Bohr) interpretation of Quantum Mechanics - It is Consciousness that creates Matter. Lawrence Krauss has stated in 'Scientific American' magazine that Nothing (no space, no time, no gravity) is unstable. And that like all unstable systems 'Nothing' will collapse and become 'something'. Thus the Universe, according to Krauss, did not require a Creator. My only question is: In a nothingness with no time - how long did it take until the unstableness of 'Nothing' collapsed and became 'something' or as we think of it - 'The Big Bang'. I suppose you can believe this or not believe it depending on how strong your faith in Atheism is. Why do people experiencing an NDE only meet Relatives who have passed on and not living Relatives. Apparently the Mind is capable of projecting a false image of a dead Relative but it cannot project a false image of a living Relative. In experiments conducted by Dean Radin an Experimenter held pics behind a wall 50% of the time. Subjects guessed correctly 50% of the time as to wether the Experimenter was holding a pic. What you would get from random chance. However when the pics were sexually erotic pics, subjects guessed correctly between 52 to 53% of the time - a statistically significant difference. And yes, these experiments were repeatable. As to the often asked question - Who created God ? The answer given by most Philosopher Theists is: 'God exists by necessity of his own nature'.

The Woo is strong with this one. For your first point did a God/gods create the universe? As of yet there is no data or evidence to suggest that yes one did. It is in the realm of possible answers but it does fall prey to the Occam's Razor test of if the Universe must have a creator then so does the creator of the universe, if the creator does not need a creator (infinite regression) why not save a step?

NDE's are easily explained without any supernatural agency. It is an Oxygen starved brain hallucinating and then the ration brain making sense of it later. This is the reason that Buddhists see the Buddha, Christians see Christ, Muslims See Muhammad, and everyone claims to have seen a dead relative. Anecdotal evidence is the weakest form and since this seems to be based more on culture and personal experience than 1 unified vision that all NDE's share it can be dismissed.

As to your experiment with the cards that falls into statistical noise and given a large enough testing it would indeed fall back into the 50% blind luck rate (+/- 3%) plus without linking to the experiment and it's controls it is rather ambiguous to use as proof of anything. Where the researches holding the card hidden from the subjects so they could not use facial indications who was asking the questions? Was it double blind?

As to who created god that is easy "Man created the gods in his own image."

(31-07-2014 04:37 PM)Luminon Wrote:  America is full of guns, but they're useless, because nobody has the courage to shoot an IRS agent in self-defense
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29-07-2013, 10:24 AM (This post was last modified: 29-07-2013 10:44 AM by cheapthrillseaker.)
RE: Random Thoughts
Copy Pasta.

The thread entitled Introduction has the same content within. That thread already has some replies. Stick to that thread, please.

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29-07-2013, 11:40 AM
RE: Random Thoughts
(29-07-2013 10:24 AM)Revenant77x Wrote:  
(29-07-2013 10:00 AM)Buddhist Alternative Wrote:  Michael Sherman from the Skeptics Society stated that if God did not require being created, logic dictates that the Universe also did not require a Creation. That is not necessarily true. The Universe is a physical and materiel place composed of Matter, Energy and Gravity - all of which require being created. A Supreme Consciousness is not physical and does not require creation. In fact, if you are a follower of the Copenhagen (Niels Bohr) interpretation of Quantum Mechanics - It is Consciousness that creates Matter. Lawrence Krauss has stated in 'Scientific American' magazine that Nothing (no space, no time, no gravity) is unstable. And that like all unstable systems 'Nothing' will collapse and become 'something'. Thus the Universe, according to Krauss, did not require a Creator. My only question is: In a nothingness with no time - how long did it take until the unstableness of 'Nothing' collapsed and became 'something' or as we think of it - 'The Big Bang'. I suppose you can believe this or not believe it depending on how strong your faith in Atheism is. Why do people experiencing an NDE only meet Relatives who have passed on and not living Relatives. Apparently the Mind is capable of projecting a false image of a dead Relative but it cannot project a false image of a living Relative. In experiments conducted by Dean Radin an Experimenter held pics behind a wall 50% of the time. Subjects guessed correctly 50% of the time as to wether the Experimenter was holding a pic. What you would get from random chance. However when the pics were sexually erotic pics, subjects guessed correctly between 52 to 53% of the time - a statistically significant difference. And yes, these experiments were repeatable. As to the often asked question - Who created God ? The answer given by most Philosopher Theists is: 'God exists by necessity of his own nature'.

The Woo is strong with this one. For your first point did a God/gods create the universe? As of yet there is no data or evidence to suggest that yes one did. It is in the realm of possible answers but it does fall prey to the Occam's Razor test of if the Universe must have a creator then so does the creator of the universe, if the creator does not need a creator (infinite regression) why not save a step?

NDE's are easily explained without any supernatural agency. It is an Oxygen starved brain hallucinating and then the ration brain making sense of it later. This is the reason that Buddhists see the Buddha, Christians see Christ, Muslims See Muhammad, and everyone claims to have seen a dead relative. Anecdotal evidence is the weakest form and since this seems to be based more on culture and personal experience than 1 unified vision that all NDE's share it can be dismissed.

As to your experiment with the cards that falls into statistical noise and given a large enough testing it would indeed fall back into the 50% blind luck rate (+/- 3%) plus without linking to the experiment and it's controls it is rather ambiguous to use as proof of anything. Where the researches holding the card hidden from the subjects so they could not use facial indications who was asking the questions? Was it double blind?

As to who created god that is easy "Man created the gods in his own image."

The point is - wether it is Christ, Buddha , Mohammed or a Dead Relative - people undergoing NDE's are seeing entities from the other side. Apparently the oxygen starved brain is incapable of producing hallucinations of living relatives. I'm quite sure that when I'm dying, I don't want a relative who has passed on and tells me that I'm dead - I want to see a living Relative who tells me that everything is okay. As for the pic experiment - they reason they were shown on "Through The Wormhole" with Morgan Freeman is that they were indeed double blind studies and repeatable.
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29-07-2013, 11:43 AM
RE: Random Thoughts
(29-07-2013 11:40 AM)Buddhist Alternative Wrote:  
(29-07-2013 10:24 AM)Revenant77x Wrote:  The Woo is strong with this one. For your first point did a God/gods create the universe? As of yet there is no data or evidence to suggest that yes one did. It is in the realm of possible answers but it does fall prey to the Occam's Razor test of if the Universe must have a creator then so does the creator of the universe, if the creator does not need a creator (infinite regression) why not save a step?

NDE's are easily explained without any supernatural agency. It is an Oxygen starved brain hallucinating and then the ration brain making sense of it later. This is the reason that Buddhists see the Buddha, Christians see Christ, Muslims See Muhammad, and everyone claims to have seen a dead relative. Anecdotal evidence is the weakest form and since this seems to be based more on culture and personal experience than 1 unified vision that all NDE's share it can be dismissed.

As to your experiment with the cards that falls into statistical noise and given a large enough testing it would indeed fall back into the 50% blind luck rate (+/- 3%) plus without linking to the experiment and it's controls it is rather ambiguous to use as proof of anything. Where the researches holding the card hidden from the subjects so they could not use facial indications who was asking the questions? Was it double blind?

As to who created god that is easy "Man created the gods in his own image."

The point is - wether it is Christ, Buddha , Mohammed or a Dead Relative - people undergoing NDE's are seeing entities from the other side. Apparently the oxygen starved brain is incapable of producing hallucinations of living relatives. I'm quite sure that when I'm dying, I don't want a relative who has passed on and tells me that I'm dead - I want to see a living Relative who tells me that everything is okay. As for the pic experiment - they reason they were shown on "Through The Wormhole" with Morgan Freeman is that they were indeed double blind studies and repeatable.

No the hallucinations are only later interpreted and placed into preconceived concepts. NDE's are very easily explained if you look at them rationally and don't try to superimpose supernatural meanings to very explainable events.

Do you have a link to this study?

(31-07-2014 04:37 PM)Luminon Wrote:  America is full of guns, but they're useless, because nobody has the courage to shoot an IRS agent in self-defense
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29-07-2013, 11:48 AM
RE: Random Thoughts
(29-07-2013 11:40 AM)Buddhist Alternative Wrote:  The point is - wether it is Christ, Buddha , Mohammed or a Dead Relative - people undergoing NDE's are seeing entities from the other side.

That is a malformed point that blatantly ignores the numerous testimonies of individuals who have trained in centrifuges. Drinking Beverage

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