Rangers Lead The Way! Hoo-ah!!
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21-08-2015, 11:03 AM
Rangers Lead The Way! Hoo-ah!!
Two women earn Ranger Tabs in a first for the Army

The Army on Monday announced two women and 94 men met the standards of the course's third and final phase, also known as the Swamp Phase.Two women will graduate from Ranger School on Friday, becoming the first women to earn the Ranger Tab.

Their graduation ceremony will take place on Victory Pond at Fort Benning, Georgia.

The women are part of the Army's gender-integrated assessment of the grueling two-month Ranger School.

The assessment has drawn a high level of scrutiny, with many questioning whether the Army is lowering its standards for the elite school — which until now was open only to men — while many others have cheered on the female students.

Army officials insisted the standards were not changed in any way.

http://www.armytimes.com/story/military/.../31889239/

The Great Fort Benning Internet Troll Beatdown (my title for it)

This week, the U.S. Army announced that CPT Kristen Griest and 1LT Shaye Haver made history as the first two women to ever complete Ranger school at Fort Benning in Georgia. The response from many men (who apparently feel threatened by the accomplishments of these two soldiers) was sadly predictable and they took to the U.S. Army Fort Benning Facebook page to question whether the female soldiers were given special treatment, raving about President Obama and the "political correctness" of the liberal movement and yada yada. What they probably didn't expect was that the soldiers who run the U.S. Army Fort Benning Facebook page weren't having any of it. While many of the comments appear to have been deleted, @KatanaPen on Twitter was able to grab a screenshot of some of the comments and replies:

http://m.dailykos.com/story/2015/08/19/1...tail=email

"Theology made no provision for evolution. The biblical authors had missed the most important revelation of all! Could it be that they were not really privy to the thoughts of God?" - E. O. Wilson
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21-08-2015, 11:34 AM
RE: Rangers Lead The Way! Hoo-ah!!
This old Ranger [1972] is damned glad to see women getting the tab. It should have happened a long time ago. Thumbsup A word of advice to men who oppose this. "Don't piss those women off. They'll eat your lunch."
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21-08-2015, 11:42 AM
RE: Rangers Lead The Way! Hoo-ah!!
Obviously this is a big topic in the military. I know several people in this group, and even from them I'm hearing conflicting stories as to whether or not certain standards were overlooked in order to make sure there were females graduating with them.

Nonetheless, my take on it is based on the fact that whatever politics are involved, we can rest assured that it is far beyond the level of the two women who made it through (17 others failed out). They competed for and were given the rare opportunity to go, they went, they did their best, it was hell, and for making it through they have my congratulations regardless of what happened behind the scenes and regardless of the debate surrounding the issue. Even if someone thinks that females shouldn't be in the school, the fact that they think that wouldn't rationally lessen their accomplishment.

Too bad they won't actually be able to put that ranger tab to use in combat arms, as the pathways typical of ranger school graduates are still closed to females for at least another year or two.

'Murican Canadian
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21-08-2015, 11:45 AM
RE: Rangers Lead The Way! Hoo-ah!!
It is one of my favorite ironies that Al Quaeda and the Iraqi insurgents, who are so against equal rights for women, have been directly responsible for the advancement of equality in the US military. How, you ask?

Previously, we had said that women could not serve in front-line combat roles, but this model was based on a time (WW2, for instance) when armies controlled "their" territory, which allows for a "front" line ahead of the advancing army. But in modern warfare, there no real front line except during an initial invasion, and even then the high mobility of the advancing forces means that pockets of resistance are often bypassed by the main force. Those pockets of resistance, and the insurgent forces that rise up after the occupation is complete, mean that any soldier can be attacked almost anywhere in the theatre of operations. See, for instance, the capture of PFC Jessica Lynch in 2003.

Over the past 12-13 years of war, as women have become increasingly important in dealing with direct contact with Muslim women (who cannot be touched for pat-downs by male soldiers), in the area of linguistics (dire need for Arabic, Pashto, and Dari translators to speak with informants and townspeople met on partrol means not ignoring the female ones), and because the enemy have proved willing to attack anyone wearing a uniform equally it means we have had females who have won awards for valor in close combat. Over this time, our military has been functionally raising women to near-equal status with men as a direct result of the pressures put on them by the requirements of fighting a sexist culture's insurgency. The irony is too thick!

So I hail and applaud this latest effort by the Army, to let these women demonstrate that they can do anything a man can do. Yes, it takes a special type of woman to be a soldier, let alone a Ranger... but that's true for men, now, ain't it?

"Theology made no provision for evolution. The biblical authors had missed the most important revelation of all! Could it be that they were not really privy to the thoughts of God?" - E. O. Wilson
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21-08-2015, 11:47 AM
RE: Rangers Lead The Way! Hoo-ah!!
The Peshmerga have units composed entirely of females, and they're performing more than adequately. And some of Russia's female snipers in World War II were fucking scary.

'Murican Canadian
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21-08-2015, 11:51 AM
RE: Rangers Lead The Way! Hoo-ah!!
Kudos to the graduates.
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21-08-2015, 12:00 PM
RE: Rangers Lead The Way! Hoo-ah!!
(21-08-2015 11:47 AM)yakherder Wrote:  The Peshmerga have units composed entirely of females, and they're performing more than adequately. And some of Russia's female snipers in World War II were fucking scary.

Totally agreed!

Speaking of "scary", when we in the USAF were having debates over the issue of female combat pilots back in the 90's, I would ask if they had heard of Lydia Litvyak.

Lydia Vladimirovna Litvyak (Лидия Владимировна Литвяк) August 18, 1921 in Moscow – August 1, 1943 in Krasnyi Luch, also known as Lydia Litviak or Lilya Litviak, was a fighter pilot in the Soviet Air Force during World War II. With at least 12 solo victories and at least four shared kills over a total of 66 combat missions, over about two years of missions, she was the first female fighter pilot to shoot down an enemy plane, the first female fighter pilot to earn the title fighter ace, and the holder of the record for the greatest number of kills by a female fighter pilot. She was shot down near Orel during the Battle of Kursk as she attacked a package of German planes.

(Bold emphasis mine.)

16+ kills in two years! That's up there with the best aces of the war, and at a time when planes were not power-assisted, especially the heavy-control Russian aircraft, which I'm pretty sure I'd be hard-pressed to fly at all, let alone in fast-maneuver situations.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lydia_Litvyak

"Theology made no provision for evolution. The biblical authors had missed the most important revelation of all! Could it be that they were not really privy to the thoughts of God?" - E. O. Wilson
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21-08-2015, 12:27 PM
RE: Rangers Lead The Way! Hoo-ah!!
She flew the Yak-1, which was fast but not terribly maneuverable, and a Lend-Lease P-39, which as a dogfighter was, well, a dog -- due to its engine layout, it had a tendency to turn any stall into a flat spin.
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21-08-2015, 03:53 PM
RE: Rangers Lead The Way! Hoo-ah!!
I think of a mother bear or wolf protecting her young and the thought of facing women in combat gives me pause. Blink

Congrats to the new Rangers. Thumbsup

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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21-08-2015, 04:30 PM
RE: Rangers Lead The Way! Hoo-ah!!
In my training squadron, we had 29 men and 4 women. Two of those women didn't belong there, physically, and couldn't keep up on our ten-mile runs in full kit... the rest of the unit wound up carrying their gear distributed among everyone else. (I usually ended up with one of the M-16A2 rifles and 180-round ammo belts... almost 20 pounds of extra weight, and very awkward to carry on-the-move gear.) But the other two more than made up for them. I'd put them up against anyone in physical contests. One was an backwoods of Alaska appointee, and the other was a competitive swimmer from Connecticut, I think (your home state mattered at USAFA, where we are appointed by a congressperson/senator). I bet either of them could have gotten that Ranger tab.

I remember Yost (the one from Alaska) telling me she was upset that women couldn't try out for the Combat Controllers.

Yakherder - You're right about the unavailability of Combat Arms, but that's exactly the point of this kind of thing. If it really was an uncontrolled--equal--test of their abilities, then this may be just the evidence the conservative top-level Generals would need to make such recommendations to change. And, of course, being a Government Entity™, that takes a while, even when there's not centuries of traditional prejudice to overcome! Undecided

"Theology made no provision for evolution. The biblical authors had missed the most important revelation of all! Could it be that they were not really privy to the thoughts of God?" - E. O. Wilson
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