Rant on apologetics
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05-03-2015, 03:30 PM
Rant on apologetics
Does anyone think that there will be a day when the apologists will actually take the time to actually learn about the subjects that they think they are presenting correctly? I have yet to see, hear, or read an apologist who has even a high school understanding of evolution or whatnot. People the likes of Craig, Turek, Chopra, D'Souza, and he-who-must-not-be-named keep filling people's heads with drivel are doing a real disservice to their readers and it is sad they they seem to be completely oblivious or don't care about that. After reading several apologists' books, watched debates, and read a few forums, I have come the the conclusion that they do not know or care that they are spreading misinformation. By ignoring or misrepresenting contrary science to convince their readers that their beliefs are rooted in reason must be justified to them in some convoluted way (I am looking squarely at you, Q). I am convinced that these books, many of which are pure excrement in print, only are meant to reinforce the foregone conclusions of their believing readers at any cost of keeping them in the faith. Yeah, I know that many of you are saying, "no shit, Sherlock" right about now.

One thing that I have noticed over many books/threads is that some will take the logical approach and if that does not work, they will move the goalposts and say that you can't know god with your mind. If that is indeed the case, then what the hell are the apologists' for? I find it very frustrating that some will blindly accept arguments that they would never accept in any other facet of their lives. If people are really interested in the "truth" then it seems very hypocritical to me that the believer will not even consider an opposing viewpoint. I am reminded of what Hitchens said to Sean Hannity about not having read any case against his position. I have a hard time wrapping my mind around how a person could willingly do this to themselves in this day and age where it is so easy to find many different opinions and the same topic. Sorry for the rant but this is something that has been on my mind for a while and I have nowhere else to throw it out.

"If we are honest—and scientists have to be—we must admit that religion is a jumble of false assertions, with no basis in reality.
The very idea of God is a product of the human imagination."
- Paul Dirac
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05-03-2015, 03:55 PM
RE: Rant on apologetics
(05-03-2015 03:30 PM)The Organic Chemist Wrote:  Does anyone think that there will be a day when the apologists will actually take the time to actually learn about the subjects that they think they are presenting correctly? I have yet to see, hear, or read an apologist who has even a high school understanding of evolution or whatnot. People the likes of Craig, Turek, Chopra, D'Souza, and he-who-must-not-be-named keep filling people's heads with drivel are doing a real disservice to their readers and it is sad they they seem to be completely oblivious or don't care about that. After reading several apologists' books, watched debates, and read a few forums, I have come the the conclusion that they do not know or care that they are spreading misinformation. By ignoring or misrepresenting contrary science to convince their readers that their beliefs are rooted in reason must be justified to them in some convoluted way (I am looking squarely at you, Q). I am convinced that these books, many of which are pure excrement in print, only are meant to reinforce the foregone conclusions of their believing readers at any cost of keeping them in the faith. Yeah, I know that many of you are saying, "no shit, Sherlock" right about now.

One thing that I have noticed over many books/threads is that some will take the logical approach and if that does not work, they will move the goalposts and say that you can't know god with your mind. If that is indeed the case, then what the hell are the apologists' for? I find it very frustrating that some will blindly accept arguments that they would never accept in any other facet of their lives. If people are really interested in the "truth" then it seems very hypocritical to me that the believer will not even consider an opposing viewpoint. I am reminded of what Hitchens said to Sean Hannity about not having read any case against his position. I have a hard time wrapping my mind around how a person could willingly do this to themselves in this day and age where it is so easy to find many different opinions and the same topic. Sorry for the rant but this is something that has been on my mind for a while and I have nowhere else to throw it out.

It has long been a question I have whether the purveyors of myth do it because they know that their target audience will buy their books, DVD's, go to their website, give offerings etc. or do they do this completely believing in it.

The thing is, you'll be asking a scam artist to tell the truth. It's something we'll never know for sure.
I suspect it's a mixture of scammer and believer that engage in the fleecing of the flock- and you can't distinguish between the two.

Gods derive their power from post-hoc rationalizations. -The Inquisition

Using the supernatural to explain events in your life is a failure of the intellect to comprehend the world around you. -The Inquisition
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05-03-2015, 04:19 PM
RE: Rant on apologetics
If they did their research we would no longer be calling them apologists.
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05-03-2015, 04:59 PM
RE: Rant on apologetics
Some of these apologists seem to be very intelligent people except when they talk about god/religion issues.
I'm no mind reader, but I find it hard to believe they truly buy into what they're saying.
Compartmentalization could account for it I suppose, but having a profitable agenda seems more likely to me.
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05-03-2015, 06:17 PM
RE: Rant on apologetics
I have wondered about the charleton angle but I have a hard time believing that they are all just in it for the money. I am sure that some are but I have a hard time seeing the banana man as someone who is just an act. Even Bozo the Clown had to take the makeup off sometime. Craig and Turek seem like smart, nice guys so it is hard to see why they would not do their homework first. Seeing Craig justify the murder of children with a straight face just seems not to fit. I guess it just proves the saying that good people say and do good things, bad people will say and do bad things but if you want to get a good person to say or do a bad thing, that takes religion.

"If we are honest—and scientists have to be—we must admit that religion is a jumble of false assertions, with no basis in reality.
The very idea of God is a product of the human imagination."
- Paul Dirac
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05-03-2015, 06:28 PM
RE: Rant on apologetics
(05-03-2015 03:30 PM)The Organic Chemist Wrote:  I have yet to see, hear, or read an apologist who has even a high school understanding of evolution or whatnot. People the likes of Craig, Turek, Chopra, D'Souza, and he-who-must-not-be-named keep filling people's heads with drivel are doing a real disservice to their readers and it is sad they they seem to be completely oblivious or don't care about that.

I'm not sure why you lump all these folks as the same. Craig and D'Souza, and I don't even think Chopra, have any real issues with evolution.

Quote:"I am not a biologist, but I realize that the vast majority of biologists in the world accept evolution. Since this is true of biologists in China and India, for example, I find it hard to believe that they are succumbing to political correctness or are part of some kind of atheist plot. Clearly there is a good deal of evidence for evolution." - D'Souza
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05-03-2015, 06:40 PM
RE: Rant on apologetics
I don't see why they just don't simply apologise.

It's not that hard.

Huh

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05-03-2015, 07:44 PM
RE: Rant on apologetics
(05-03-2015 06:28 PM)Tomasia Wrote:  
(05-03-2015 03:30 PM)The Organic Chemist Wrote:  I have yet to see, hear, or read an apologist who has even a high school understanding of evolution or whatnot. People the likes of Craig, Turek, Chopra, D'Souza, and he-who-must-not-be-named keep filling people's heads with drivel are doing a real disservice to their readers and it is sad they they seem to be completely oblivious or don't care about that.

I'm not sure why you lump all these folks as the same. Craig and D'Souza, and I don't even think Chopra, have any real issues with evolution.

Quote:"I am not a biologist, but I realize that the vast majority of biologists in the world accept evolution. Since this is true of biologists in China and India, for example, I find it hard to believe that they are succumbing to political correctness or are part of some kind of atheist plot. Clearly there is a good deal of evidence for evolution." - D'Souza

Craig does not understand evolution.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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05-03-2015, 08:49 PM
RE: Rant on apologetics
(05-03-2015 06:40 PM)DLJ Wrote:  I don't see why they just don't simply apologise.

It's not that hard.

Huh

I would rather they just learn the stuff. That would be better than an apology. Then maybe they would apologize for he-who-must-not-be-named.

"If we are honest—and scientists have to be—we must admit that religion is a jumble of false assertions, with no basis in reality.
The very idea of God is a product of the human imagination."
- Paul Dirac
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06-03-2015, 07:00 AM
RE: Rant on apologetics
(05-03-2015 04:19 PM)Fodder_From_The_Truth Wrote:  If they did their research we would no longer be calling them apologists.

we'd be calling them apostates if they did their homework Smile

seriously this is the only time we should be pro-homework which has throughout history ruined our free time Smartass
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