Rapture: Aftermath + a serious question
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22-05-2011, 02:43 AM
Rapture: Aftermath + a serious question
Well... Rapture was some kind of an anti-climax.

We as skeptical S of B 'es had our laughs with the gullible. Now, we just have to wait for 21 dec 2012 for the world to end, and we can have a laugh again. (I'm always hesitating on doing that since I think it might one day fly as a boomerang into my face. Not directly for sure... but more as an "unknown-unknown")

Anyways...
Here in Europe there was as good as no noise about rapture and the end of the world. Good that I had my connections from over the big water to inform me, or I would miss all of the fun.
Here's the question, I hope you don't feel offended (if you should however: You've read the wrong post Smile)

When it comes about weird cults, fanatic believes, religious hypes an overall lack of skepticism, I have the perception that the US of A leads the way.
  • Is my perception wrong?
  • If not, is there an explanation for it?
  • Maybe it's just a numbers-game...
  • Why IS religion so much bigger in the USA?

American or not American, your thoughts would be greatly appreciated.

Observer

Agnostic atheist
Secular humanist
Emotional rationalist
Disclaimer: Don’t mix the personal opinion above with the absolute and objective truth. Remember to think for yourself. Thank you.
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22-05-2011, 03:26 AM
RE: Rapture: Aftermath + a serious question
Hello there Observer! Yeah this issue was pretty much anti climatic indeed... Well what I can say about 2012 is that I dont think something could be possible to happen, there is a lot of information disproving such thing, most historians + 1 friend of mine which is studying to become an historian himself agrees that the mayan calendar issue is nothing but just the end of a time cycle and the begining of another, even modern day descendants of mayans agree this, I think this point was made also in Penn & Teller Bullshit! If you ask me, the end of the world could be tomorrow or 100 years from now caused by a natural phenomenon like a meteor/comet impact, a gamma ray burst from an undetected supernova or even a traveler black hole passing by our solar system, Who knows?

Now back to the main idea;

Quote:When it comes about weird cults, fanatic believes, religious hypes an overall lack of skepticism, I have the perception that the US of A leads the way.

Yeah probably the US is one of the top countries who embrace the things you mentiooned, but I think in my case, I can tell that Mexico is not that far behind... sadly Sad

Quote:Is my perception wrong?

I dont think so, because is something we can see by reading about this rapture thing. But as I said before the US is not the only country aflicted by the lack of critical thinking, in Mexico a huge % of its population is supersticious, gullible and with a grotesque lack of understanding regarding science and critical thinking, and the nail in the coffin was showed on a survey 2 years ago if I recall correctly; the majority of our people dont understand science, not only that; a lot of people admited to feel fear to science, which I think I have an explanation in your second point.

Quote:If not, is there an explanation for it?

I think it could be reasonably safe to say that one of the key factors of this could be the religious infiltration over society, of course, it depends on which is the dominant religion, for example, here in Mexico this whole rapture issue was not taken seriously because the dominant judeo-christian denomination as you may know is catholicism, catholics from what I can see, dont pay much atention when it comes to the book of revelation, they dismiss several parts in the bible anyway. But the thing is, when religious dogma is such an important part of a society, the majority of people will just follow the dogma, you can see this in muslim countries, catholic countries, protestant countries, etc.

Quote:Maybe it's just a numbers-game...

As far as I can see, it could be just a game of numbers like I said before mentioning countries where religion is a majority issue.

Quote:Why IS religion so much bigger in the USA?

Honestly, I dont know, but the same applies to every country where religious people are a significant majority, it does not matter if its a 1st world or a 3rd world country, Mexico is a 3rd world country, but at the same time US is a 1st world country, but in both countries religion is a matter of numbers, and in both countries, religion is deeply infiltrated in daily lives and politics, we also have our own bible belts full of absurd and immoral laws based on religious authority, those states are also closer to become a theocracy, it seems that here in Mexico the goverment is ignoring the church-state separation.

But overall I think I share the same perspective as you do, not only about the US, but other countries as well.

"The tendency to turn human judgments into divine commands makes religion one of the most dangerous forces in the world.”
-Georgia Harkness.

"La fe es patrimonio de los pendejos. (Faith is patrimony of the dumbfucks)."
-Diego Rivera
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22-05-2011, 03:53 AM
RE: Rapture: Aftermath + a serious question
I think America isn't leading the way with wierd beliefs. Islam and hinduism, as well as the many tribes with assorted superstitions have a load more wierd and wacky beliefs than the typical american.

It seems to me, though, that the majority of americans are not skeptical, so your perceptions would seem to be right in that regards.

Why is religion so much bigger in the USA? I'm not convinced it is. Muslims and Jews live by their religion and care about it much more than christians do. America has around 1/4 to 1/3 of its population as secular, non-religious people, whilst middle eastern countries and african nations have far more religious people; 90% or more.
It might just be that you hear more about the religious morons opposing the holocaust or global warming or evolution than you hear about religious people from other countries doing the same.

"I do not feel obliged to believe that the same God who has endowed us with sense, reason and intellect has intended us to forego their use." - Galileo

"Every man is guilty of all the good he did not do." - Voltaire
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22-05-2011, 04:08 AM
RE: RaptuAftermath + a serious question
(22-05-2011 03:53 AM)daemonowner Wrote:  It might just be that you hear more about the religious morons opposing the holocaust or global warming or evolution than you hear about religious people from other countries doing the same.
Good observations from both of you. In that context it IS just my perception. The "religious nitwits and other "gullibleists" (<-- now officially a word Smile) in the US have a soapbox from which to cast their stupidness into the western hemisphere. So my correct opening question should have been...

(22-05-2011 02:43 AM)The_observer Wrote:  When it comes about weird cults, fanatic believes, religious hypes an overall lack of skepticism, I have the perception that the US of A leads the way in the western world.
  • Is my perception wrong?
  • If not, is there an explanation for it?
  • Maybe it's just a numbers-game...
  • Why IS religion so much bigger in the USA then in Europe?

American or not American, your thoughts would be greatly appreciated.

Observer

Agnostic atheist
Secular humanist
Emotional rationalist
Disclaimer: Don’t mix the personal opinion above with the absolute and objective truth. Remember to think for yourself. Thank you.
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22-05-2011, 06:44 AM
RE: Rapture: Aftermath + a serious question
Canada is a lot better for secularism, I've heard there are a few provinces where 40% of people hold no faith or are agnostic.
Mind you the religious are the loudest, I've met some that loudly proclaim that because Harper has his majority now the "vast majority of the country which are right-wing, christian" can force their beliefs and laws on all other groups in Canada.

Hey brother christian, with your high and mighty errand, your actions speak so loud, I can't hear a word you're saying.

"This machine kills fascists..."

"Well this machine kills commies!"
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22-05-2011, 11:14 AM (This post was last modified: 22-05-2011 11:17 AM by Lilith Pride.)
RE: Rapture: Aftermath + a serious question
My opinion is generally echoing daemon. There are many countries with a much higher rate of gullibility easily noted are parts of India and Africa (There are better parts in this regard). The unique thing about the US is that since it is the only superpower which has decided to base it's power system on religion, it holds a high gullibility rating despite the vast amount of information available. US citizens are not as susceptible as some countries, but due to our freedoms and diversity we have vastly outnumbered any nation in the amount of fanatical beliefs. Most places with people of this creed gaining power also have an oppressive government which restricts defiance. The US is the magical nation where people seem to deny the incredible amount of information available for their families, and seek a life of not knowing. The main issue to me is that the US has not fully accepted the systems nearly universally accepted within the rest of the world. Education has a limiting effect on superstition, but this is drastically effected by age. Learning the truth isn't as big of an experience for a 40 year old as a 15 year old. Children being poorly educated is to me the leading factor in the excessive gullibility this nation faces.

Yes I do realize that other nations are following the Religious Politics trend, but none to the extent of the US. Not by a long shot.

I'm not a non believer, I believe in the possibility of anything. I just don't let the actuality of something be determined by a 3rd party.
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22-05-2011, 02:21 PM
 
RE: Rapture: Aftermath + a serious question
Well, obviously, you have never been in the middle east (specially saudi arabia and afganistan), there they are way too conservative and believe in such a bunch of nonsense that are in deed a match to the most conservative christians on the USA or in any other place. But who can blame them, after all, the religious authorities are in the government there, so they are attacked by every angle by the religion (from their homes and schools until the radios and TV, everywhere is religion).

And as I have heard somewhere else: "religion is considered: by the common people as true, by skeptics as false, and by the leaders as useful". That could explain their situation XD.
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22-05-2011, 02:25 PM
RE: Rapture: Aftermath + a serious question
I don't consider there to be real politics in places ruled by dictators. There is of course a lot of propaganda, but politics begs the possibility of an alternative.

I'm not a non believer, I believe in the possibility of anything. I just don't let the actuality of something be determined by a 3rd party.
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22-05-2011, 03:25 PM
 
RE: Rapture: Aftermath + a serious question
rapture-math:
recalculation of date to observe

be there, taste it
hose it down with a good beer

question:
why are you interested in the concept of The Rapture?
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22-05-2011, 06:45 PM
RE: Rapture: Aftermath + a serious question
I think the US has become a 'perfect storm' for this kind of thing. Relatively free, super sensitive toward belief, an amalgamation of cultures and lifestyles, a lot of people feeling disenfranchised, a huge diverse media machine, and finally religion wrapped in politics and money. The politicization of religion is a biggie, I think that really took off in the 70s and 80s. (Although the BBC program 'The Power of Nightmares' made a good case for it starting in the 50s.)

We all enter this world in the same way: naked; screaming; soaked in blood. But if you live your life right, that kind of thing doesn't have to stop there.
Dana Gould
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