Rational Suicide - Constructive Discussion
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22-01-2017, 03:56 PM (This post was last modified: 22-01-2017 04:00 PM by Clockwork.)
Rational Suicide - Constructive Discussion
There was an earlier thread the GirlyMan started about rational suicide, and he & others mentioned starting a new one for constructive discussion on this issue.

A few of us have discussed the idea of rational suicide in private messages. I won't divulge names since it's a sensitive subject. Also, there have bits and pieces occasionally in posts all over the forum. The idea is simple: choosing to die by your own hands on your own terms.

There are many reasons for rational suicide. It's a conscious decision that is made for various reasons. It could be declining health and not looking forward to your care being in the hands of strangers, or not being able to ensure getting any care at all. For some, it's a conscious choice not to face the inevitable process of dying. For example, if both sides of a person's family history includes strokes and cerebral hemorrhages, and that person has many health issues that could lead to that. For others it's a decision because they realize our value (usually a subjective issue) declines as we age.

Often people assume the only reason to commit suicide is due to depression or other mental illness. While this probably explains most of the cases, this is not always it. My mother personally knew one of Kevorkian's last cases. (I won't say which one to protect him.) When he told my mother he was going to visit Kevorkian, most people thought he was kidding because of his terminal illness. He explained that the upcoming pain and complications of his disease was going to make his life hell. He was actually happy, partly because he had chosen this along with his family.

Rational suicide is a sensitive topic. For some of us, it makes a lot of sense. Why not choose the time of your death?

I'd like to hear respectful opinions on this. Please don't give any advice for actual techniques.

Mods: If this is too close to the Euthanasia Thread, please lock this one. Thanks.
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22-01-2017, 04:09 PM
RE: Rational Suicide - Constructive Discussion
It is all about timing. For example, Robin Williams, although depressed, was also facing leowy body dementia. He took his life while he still had the capacity to do so. If I'm not having fun anymore, and the outlook is bleak I would certainly consider it.
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22-01-2017, 04:11 PM
RE: Rational Suicide - Constructive Discussion
This is legal in several states given that a fatal disease is present.

In Oregon, since the law was passed in 1997, a total of 1,327 people have had DWDA prescriptions written and 859 patients have died from ingesting medications prescribed under the DWDA.

Rational suicide mostly happens in fatally ill people to avoid prolonged suffering and in the elderly. The stats on this are incredibly skewed because admission of suicide will cost the survivors the insurance. So, the death certificates usually state "accidental" overdose. This then has ramifications in another issue loaded area - pain pill prescriptions.

Depression is likely the largest cause for younger people. Midlife crisis also has it's casualties. But by very far the most suicides are committed by the elderly, and probably the majority of these are rational..

[Image: dobie.png]Science is the process we've designed to be responsible for generating our best guess as to what the fuck is going on. Girly Man
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22-01-2017, 04:12 PM
RE: Rational Suicide - Constructive Discussion
I have no problem with this if one doing the deed won't leave family on thin ice - sure, one is free to do it but leaving children without care that one could provide is shitty thing to do.

When children are not the issue then, well everyone has right to end life whenever one see fit. It may be selfish but living with whatever pain is making one consider killing oneself isn't something that others could demand. As long as said others aren't dependent on you that is. Honestly even if there is no pain or suffering, just ennui then I still see no problem - not my life, not my choice.

The first revolt is against the supreme tyranny of theology, of the phantom of God. As long as we have a master in heaven, we will be slaves on earth.

Mikhail Bakunin.
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22-01-2017, 05:06 PM
RE: Rational Suicide - Constructive Discussion
Dementia/Alzheimer's runs in my dad's side of the family.
I already have neurological issues and if I felt I was starting to lose my grip on reality, I'd probably look for a better way out.
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22-01-2017, 05:12 PM
RE: Rational Suicide - Constructive Discussion
Dementia is a bastard. You lose your way and lose capacity to take care of business.
There should be a mental dead man's switch. If you stop functioning mentally long enough, the train that is your life will come to a halt. Make the delay long enough to cover the odd contingency.
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22-01-2017, 06:43 PM
RE: Rational Suicide - Constructive Discussion
Medically-assisted suicide was legalized in Canada last year. To a degree. There are conditions you have to meet but it's a start.

The topic of mental illness is particularly difficult. The question of whether or not an individual is competent to make the choice is very thorny and I doubt that there are easy answers.

Paranoid schizophrenia runs in my mother's side of the family. Luckily, I am past the age where it typically manifests in men. My brother was less fortunate. He took his life after suffering with it for over a decade and a half. In every way that matters he was gone long before that. His final act was not a reasoned one made by a competent mind but it was a mercy nonetheless.

If I were to discover that I was similarly afflicted and untreatable then I would not hesitate to end myself rather than allow that disease to devour my mind a nibble at a time. I cannot conceive of any just, merciful or sane law that would prevent an individual from deciding their own end and force them to suffer the cruelties of a slow and inevitable degeneration. We treat our pets and our livestock better than that.

---
Flesh and blood of a dead star, slain in the apocalypse of supernova, resurrected by four billion years of continuous autocatalytic reaction and crowned with the emergent property of sentience in the dream that the universe might one day understand itself.
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22-01-2017, 06:50 PM
RE: Rational Suicide - Constructive Discussion
(22-01-2017 04:12 PM)Szuchow Wrote:  I have no problem with this if one doing the deed won't leave family on thin ice - sure, one is free to do it but leaving children without care that one could provide is shitty thing to do.

I understand what you mean but I can't think of any circumstances where I would consider suicide as an alternative and still be capable of providing care. If my situation is dire enough that ending my life has become a reasonable option then I am almost certainly more of a burden than a help, or bound that way very shortly.

---
Flesh and blood of a dead star, slain in the apocalypse of supernova, resurrected by four billion years of continuous autocatalytic reaction and crowned with the emergent property of sentience in the dream that the universe might one day understand itself.
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22-01-2017, 06:53 PM
RE: Rational Suicide - Constructive Discussion
First I want to say that I am glad to see you Clockwork! You have been missed.

After watching what my dad went through at the end, my stance on the right to end one's own life was solidified. Having a medical background he knew every step that was coming and he held on well past the time of no return for the sake of family. When he said goodbye to staff at the facility he was in I knew that he was on his way out. He then refused all treatment/feeding except for pain relief...as much as they were able to offer. When he decided the time was right he utilized the Oxy he had stockpiled.

I do think that everyone (who is able to make an informed decision) has the right to make the determination as to when enough is enough.

Especially with a world culture that is so heavily religious there is a feeling that only a god can make the decision...that's BS. Too many religious are in places of power and they don't want to go against the concept that only god can decide to end a life.

See here they are the bruises some were self-inflicted and some showed up along the way. - JF

We're all mad here. The Cheshire Cat
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22-01-2017, 06:59 PM
RE: Rational Suicide - Constructive Discussion
I go through this once a week. Usually lasts about 3 days or so.

I don't know how I feel about it personally. I have seen life given away, lost quite a number of friends to it. Nearly been killed by it...

I've been fighting death for so long.

For me it is a very real thing. I live it. Not just the thinking about it bit. Actually living through those periods. Chemically induced or what, I don't know.

This past few years...man, friggin hell I've been so far from life.

It's like this.

You're lyin' in your bed, feeling like death itself. Nurses with concern all over their faces try their best. They don't understand inside you're just fighting so fucking hard! But you can't move. Can't talk. Your body is a cocoon surrounding a nightmare.

And you fight. I had a professor tell me malaria was a joke compared to what I experienced. Smile

I'm here.

That's all I can say I think.

NOTE: Member, Tomasia uses this site to slander other individuals. He then later proclaims it a joke, but not in public.
I will call him a liar and a dog here and now.
Banjo.
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