Rational Suicide - Constructive Discussion
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22-01-2017, 07:00 PM
RE: Rational Suicide - Constructive Discussion
I am not sure what I would decide to do. Until I'm in that type of situation, it's hard for me to say what I personally would do. I think there would be so many factors effecting my decision. I think it's a personal choice and I do believe that everyone should have the ability to have that choice if they want it. I am an advocate of living the way I want and would hope I could make the same decisions involving my death if faced with various scenarios.

"Let the waters settle and you will see the moon and stars mirrored in your own being." -Rumi
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22-01-2017, 07:36 PM
RE: Rational Suicide - Constructive Discussion
This topic is very close to me.

Generally I think that every human should have the right to end their life if they want to. After all I do get the support from the medical community to try my best in order to stay alive but for some reason it is unacceptable to receive the same support if I want to end my life.
It is understandable that a doctor might not want to "kill" me because of their oath but that is why it is called suicide. You do it yourself.
I feel there is too much stigma attached to suicide. This idea that suicide is something horrible and cold and sad and painful. In reality one can have many reasons and the suicide itself absolutely does not have to be something horrible. It can be a very loving and warm experience. Just the stigma has to go.

I think, that every person should have the right to make this most important decision about themselves. Nobody asked to be born but here we are and maybe some of us humans just don't want to. I personally can absolutely respect that.

I am absolutely of the opinion, by the way, that those who choose suicide because of mental illness, should seek help to get better first. The mind does weird things when we are mentally unwell and we should receive the same attention and support that we get when are physically ill.
I think it is selfish to talk everybody out of suicide no matter what.
Sentences like "but your family needs you" or "you are selfish for choosing suicide" or "suicide is for weak people" are not helpful and they are blackmail. Simple as that.

I had suicidal friends in the past and I have always tried to feel out what their reasons were. Only one went through with it and I understand why and can respect that. The others had problems that caused them to be suicidal and they found help (from friends, family, therapists, etc) and are all still very much alive.

Yes, as you see, this topic is very close to me.
I was suicidal almost all my life and a lot of the time I live by "ah well, I can always do it, let me first see what tomorrow brings."
I went through a "dark" time just recently where I was very close again.
Realistically speaking, one day I will probably do it, although right now I wanna enjoy life a bit more and have many plans for the future.
But when that day comes, I would like the people around me to respect my decision and let me go instead of forcing me to go on for their selfish reasons.

Yea done

"Freedom is the freedom to say that 2+2=4" - George Orwell (in 1984)
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22-01-2017, 07:57 PM
RE: Rational Suicide - Constructive Discussion
I don't really get why people get involved in suicide prevention. Why continue on if you don't want to?
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22-01-2017, 08:22 PM
RE: Rational Suicide - Constructive Discussion
It's a violation of the social contract. Take it up with your subcontractors. I'm probably on that bus. Happy Valentine's.

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22-01-2017, 08:27 PM
RE: Rational Suicide - Constructive Discussion
Obviously I'm not going to speak on behalf of anyone else, but I can definitely see the usefulness of rational suicide. One thing that has bothered me (that thankfully none here have asserted yet) is the notion of "yes, but others have it worse." To me that's a ridiculous claim. Everything we experience is subjective, and what one considers an inconvenience would be a life-changing event. As a minor analogy, I have migraines. No offense to anyone, but what some consider a horrible headache, I'd probably consider a slight nagging sensation. But then someone in my life had lupus and leukemia, and she was more active than I was.

In my state, there are no laws allowing for any sort of suicide assistance. In fact, unless it's withholding life-sustaining procedures while having power of attorney, no one is allowed to assist at all. That's why my mother's friend had to travel to meet Kevorkian. From what I remember, his cancer wasn't as bad as what Banjo is going through now, or what a friend's grandmother's third surgery for the same type of cancer as my mother's friend. However, he didn't want to face it. I don't think anyone who knew him was opposed to it.

In my case, I'm looking at not having the money to care for myself in my older age. There's a good chance that the last two in my family will be me and my younger sister. If that's the case, she will not help me at all. (I'm not exaggerating.) My health is getting to the point where working is hell (and I don't qualify for anything but jobs that pay shit), and I have no way to get insurance. So I look ahead and don't see any reason to think I'm going to have happy elderly years. I know many won't be able to fully retire, but I will have to work until the day I die. Worse, there's a chance that I'll be rendered unable to work. Heart disease and strokes run strongly in my family, so I'm not just finding the worse situation. It's happened.

I'm not saying all this for sympathy or attention. It's an example of how some do rationalize not wanting to have a future that seems bleak. For me, rational suicide is a very real possibility.
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22-01-2017, 09:54 PM
RE: Rational Suicide - Constructive Discussion
(22-01-2017 06:59 PM)Banjo Wrote:  I go through this once a week. Usually lasts about 3 days or so.

Dale, I cannot even begin to imagine what you have gone through. I am in awe of your ability to survive it.

If you haven't already done so, might I suggest you implement some failsafes? While you are clear-headed set some self-imposed limits to help prevent impulsive acts while in your darkest hours. Speak to at least two people about it who understand your condition and give it a preset amount of time for careful deliberation. More than '3 days or so'. You have beaten death for so long that a few days to make sure of your choice only seems prudent.

As I said above, I would be the last person to tell you how or when you must end your song but I would not see it cut short before you are well and truly ready and the last golden notes have been struck.

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22-01-2017, 09:56 PM
RE: Rational Suicide - Constructive Discussion
(22-01-2017 07:36 PM)Leela Wrote:  It is understandable that a doctor might not want to "kill" me because of their oath but that is why it is called suicide. You do it yourself.

Our experience in Canada has been that this is rarely a problem. Medical professionals understand quality of life far too well to be eager to extend pointless suffering. A few doctors and nurses have personal ethical qualms but the solution has been to wish the patient a speedy journey and refer them to a colleague without those reservations. Not everybody is capable of the DIY solution and there have been tragic and ghastly instances where individuals implemented them imperfectly.

Quote:I am absolutely of the opinion, by the way, that those who choose suicide because of mental illness, should seek help to get better first.

I agree entirely. Sadly, certain mental illnesses begin by disabling your capacity to recognize your own irrational behaviour. This is one of the most terrifying and heart-wrenching aspects of it. My brother could have been treated, likely effectively. Sadly, it is very difficult to demonstrate that an adult isn't mentally competent and even nearly pointless to treat a victim of a mental illness against their will.

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22-01-2017, 10:28 PM
RE: Rational Suicide - Constructive Discussion
I have the means and if the motive arises I will almost certainly end my life.

There are also medical doctors in my family both in the U.S. and in Canada who are sympathetic to the concept, so I may have means to a peaceful exit.

My basis for ethics and morality is that we have sovereign control of ourselves, so I have no problem with rationally-motivated suicide.

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Science is not a subject, but a method.
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22-01-2017, 10:49 PM
RE: Rational Suicide - Constructive Discussion
It is and always has been my belief that all people should have the final say in how and/or when their life ends. (Excepting those who have forsaken this control by severe social violation for the period it is taken from them, and those who lack what is professionally determined to be sufficient cognitive capacity to make such a decision)

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22-01-2017, 11:11 PM
RE: Rational Suicide - Constructive Discussion
(22-01-2017 07:57 PM)ImFred Wrote:  I don't really get why people get involved in suicide prevention. Why continue on if you don't want to?
people screw up all the time. They have a transient condition and after seeking some help come to the realization that they really did not want to end it all. Often it is a chemical thing.
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