Rational Thought
Post Reply
 
Thread Rating:
  • 0 Votes - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
02-04-2016, 04:58 PM
RE: Rational Thought
(02-04-2016 04:55 PM)ClydeLee Wrote:  
(02-04-2016 04:32 PM)diversesynergy Wrote:  All the replies seem to argue semantics over the definition of "random". Call it random; unguided; evolution - the logical problem you face is the same.

If your brain is nothing but the product of "stardust", ie the matter of this universe, then on what basis can you ever fundamentally conclude that anything it derives for you has any meaning or rationality?

Who cares if it has meaning?

haha - because if it doesn't have meaning, then anything you propose is invalid! That's the whole point.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
02-04-2016, 04:59 PM
RE: Rational Thought
(02-04-2016 04:58 PM)diversesynergy Wrote:  
(02-04-2016 04:55 PM)ClydeLee Wrote:  Who cares if it has meaning?

haha - because if it doesn't have meaning, then anything you propose is invalid! That's the whole point.

That doesn't follow from one to another.

What does one need to do bothering with purposing any absolute teetering like ideas as these statements in this thread come off as anyway?

"Allow there to be a spectrum in all that you see" - Neil Degrasse Tyson
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes ClydeLee's post
02-04-2016, 05:03 PM
RE: Rational Thought
(02-04-2016 04:57 PM)diversesynergy Wrote:  Actually, the main point was my OP - I wanted the explanation of why you can declare any rationality (or logic, or math or whatever you choose to call it) behind anything your brain concludes, if your very premise is that you are just a product of the matter of this universe. You'd need a benchmark separate to what your own brain tells you is logically valid.

And we have it, the same way that we have it for mathematics.

So why is this thread still open?

"Owl," said Rabbit shortly, "you and I have brains. The others have fluff. If there is any thinking to be done in this Forest - and when I say thinking I mean thinking - you and I must do it."
- A. A. Milne, The House at Pooh Corner
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
02-04-2016, 05:04 PM
RE: Rational Thought
ClydeLee

Yes, of course it follows!

You say, "I have rationally concluded that my brain is a product of the matter of this universe and nothing more".

But your brain is the very tool you are using to make that judgment. You have no external verification. Your own proposal undermines the methodology behind your conclusion.

If you further say it has no meaning, then it is even worse! If what your brain is telling you is meaningless, then even more reason not to trust what it concludes.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
02-04-2016, 05:06 PM (This post was last modified: 02-04-2016 05:12 PM by DLJ.)
RE: Rational Thought
(02-04-2016 04:57 PM)diversesynergy Wrote:  ...
Actually, the main point was my OP - I wanted the explanation of why you can declare any rationality (or logic, or math or whatever you choose to call it) behind anything your brain concludes, if your very premise is that you are just a product of the matter of this universe. You'd need a benchmark separate to what your own brain tells you is logically valid.

Yeah, got that.

So what didn't you like about this answer? ...

(02-04-2016 04:30 PM)Unbeliever Wrote:  Whether or not a statement is rational is a matter of whether or not it abides by the rules of logic, not where the brain making it came from.

Huh

And ... was this a deliberate equivocation?

(02-04-2016 05:04 PM)diversesynergy Wrote:  ...
If you further say it has no meaning, then it is even worse! If what your brain is telling you is meaningless, then even more reason not to trust what it concludes.

Dodgy

Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 2 users Like DLJ's post
02-04-2016, 05:06 PM
RE: Rational Thought
The thread is still open, because no-one has answered the question. More worryingly, many of you don't even seem to understand the question. For a website that declares itself to be a bunch of "thinking" atheists, this is a pretty poor show.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
02-04-2016, 05:08 PM
RE: Rational Thought
DLJ

Do you really not see what is wrong with that answer? What benchmark are you using to define "logic"? Your own brain. It is self-referential.

That is the whole POINT of my question. That "answer" is merely reframing my question, with a self-referential explanation.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
02-04-2016, 05:09 PM
RE: Rational Thought
(02-04-2016 05:08 PM)diversesynergy Wrote:  Do you really not see what is wrong with that answer? What benchmark are you using to define "logic"? Your own brain. It is self-referential.

That is the whole POINT of my question. That "answer" is merely reframing my question, with a self-referential explanation.

Do you consider mathematics "self-referential"?

"Owl," said Rabbit shortly, "you and I have brains. The others have fluff. If there is any thinking to be done in this Forest - and when I say thinking I mean thinking - you and I must do it."
- A. A. Milne, The House at Pooh Corner
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
02-04-2016, 05:15 PM
RE: Rational Thought
(02-04-2016 05:08 PM)diversesynergy Wrote:  ...
Do you really not see what is wrong with that answer? What benchmark are you using to define "logic"? Your own brain. It is self-referential.
...

I'm flattered that you think that the definition of logic comes from my brain.

I'd love to take credit for it, but modesty forbids.

Girl_nails

Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 2 users Like DLJ's post
02-04-2016, 05:15 PM
RE: Rational Thought
We could choose to believe that man was made from the dust of the ground into a clay person and then given life by a magical sky genie. We could believe that this magical sky genie then put his male creation into a sleep-induced coma and extracted his rib to make a female. Or we could believe that evolution was responsible for our existence. There is evidence for evolution and zero evidence for divine intervention. If we are logical creatures, then logical creatures would follow the trail of evidence to arrive at conclusions.

"Let the waters settle and you will see the moon and stars mirrored in your own being." -Rumi
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
Post Reply
Forum Jump: