Rational Thought
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02-04-2016, 05:17 PM
RE: Rational Thought
Mathematics is a human approximation in any case, and yes of course you rely on your own brain to derive "meaning" out of mathematics.

Take something supposedly "simple" - like 2 + 2.

You'd say, 4 of course. But is it?

What makes "2" of something? Say you have two cups in front of you, made of the same material with the same pattern. It is only a human approximation that you say the two cups are sufficiently similar to define them as 2 of the "same" thing. The cups will be ever so slightly different, based on the tolerance of the machinery that made them, the colour of the ink on the pattern, the chemical make up of the glass and so on. And really the cups have entirely different atoms, one will almost certainly have many more atoms than the other. If you were to focus on the number of atoms, it is not "2" things you are dealing with at all, but a colossal number of "things".
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02-04-2016, 05:18 PM
RE: Rational Thought
(02-04-2016 05:04 PM)diversesynergy Wrote:  ClydeLee

Yes, of course it follows!

You say, "I have rationally concluded that my brain is a product of the matter of this universe and nothing more".

But your brain is the very tool you are using to make that judgment. You have no external verification. Your own proposal undermines the methodology behind your conclusion.

If you further say it has no meaning, then it is even worse! If what your brain is telling you is meaningless, then even more reason not to trust what it concludes.

How do you determine it is "worse" if there is no meaning?

"Allow there to be a spectrum in all that you see" - Neil Degrasse Tyson
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02-04-2016, 05:19 PM
RE: Rational Thought
DLJ

Of COURSE it is your own brain that derives logic for you! What else do you believe you are using to derive it?
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02-04-2016, 05:20 PM
RE: Rational Thought
ClydeLee

I'm not the one arguing that humanity is a random by-product, my premise allows for rationality and meaning to exist. I'm questioning why you think that YOURS does?
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02-04-2016, 05:21 PM (This post was last modified: 02-04-2016 05:26 PM by DLJ.)
RE: Rational Thought
How rude of me. I forget to welcome you to TTA.

Welcome, bastard child of COTW and AgnosticShane, to our meaningless, illogical home.

Big Grin

(02-04-2016 05:19 PM)diversesynergy Wrote:  DLJ

Of COURSE it is your own brain that derives logic for you! What else do you believe you are using to derive it?

Make your mind up.

One minute it's 'define', next minute it's 'derive'.

Wanna keep this civil, then please observe normal rules of conversational etiquette and own your mistakes.

Cheers.

Rolleyes

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02-04-2016, 05:23 PM
RE: Rational Thought
DLJ

Many thanks for the welcome. Still waiting for an actual answer.
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02-04-2016, 05:24 PM
RE: Rational Thought
So far I can surmise that no-one here can answer the question, quite a few of you don't even understand the question, and rather than attempt an answer you prefer to go off on tangents and make sarcastic comments.

Yes I see why you consider yourselves "thinking" atheists...
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02-04-2016, 05:26 PM
RE: Rational Thought
(02-04-2016 05:20 PM)diversesynergy Wrote:  ClydeLee

I'm not the one arguing that humanity is a random by-product, my premise allows for rationality and meaning to exist. I'm questioning why you think that YOURS does?

And I'm trying to use that against you to make you think why you would think you think others Does, Wants to, Needs to, Seeks to, Thinks it is relevant, etc.

It's the type of questioning and wounding one from an angle may think is a winning cycle but it really goes nowhere. The next stages never exist, you say it's internal.
And I'd say: okay, so what?

There is never anything beyond that. Because you've gone to an equal footing of oh then you can't know things for certain, well many don't think they need to know things for certain. It isn't concluding or faulting anything.

"Allow there to be a spectrum in all that you see" - Neil Degrasse Tyson
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02-04-2016, 05:27 PM
RE: Rational Thought
(02-04-2016 05:24 PM)diversesynergy Wrote:  So far I can surmise that no-one here can answer the question, quite a few of you don't even understand the question, and rather than attempt an answer you prefer to go off on tangents and make sarcastic comments.

Yes I see why you consider yourselves "thinking" atheists...

Who said anyone here considers themselves "thinking" atheist. It's a forum for a podcast/youtube page named that.

What you may think is sarcastic, is just you not understanding a concept beyond what you think you're trying to say. But you seem to make a lot of presumptuous statements. How well does that go for you in life?

"Allow there to be a spectrum in all that you see" - Neil Degrasse Tyson
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02-04-2016, 05:27 PM
RE: Rational Thought
Yes, indeed. Quite right I have the same problem ClydeLee. That is also part of the point.

We both operate entirely on faith, the difference is I readily accept this as an unavoidable logical position.
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