Rational Thought
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02-04-2016, 05:28 PM
RE: Rational Thought
So we are back to "Just Turtles All The Way Down!"
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02-04-2016, 05:29 PM
RE: Rational Thought
(02-04-2016 05:27 PM)diversesynergy Wrote:  Yes, indeed. Quite right I have the same problem ClydeLee. That is also part of the point.

We both operate entirely on faith, the difference is I readily accept this as an unavoidable logical position.

Fail to see where you think there is some difference there. More presumptuous claims.

"Allow there to be a spectrum in all that you see" - Neil Degrasse Tyson
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02-04-2016, 05:30 PM
RE: Rational Thought
(02-04-2016 04:41 PM)diversesynergy Wrote:  Higher orders is a logical premise of dimensions. A three dimensional being would be of a higher order to a two dimensional being. That is simple mathematics, not gibberish.

Tell us about these 2 dimensional beings you believe in, OK?
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02-04-2016, 05:31 PM
RE: Rational Thought
I can't say 100 percent for sure that there is no god or gods. However, I choose to look at the evidence to determine fact from fiction. I see no evidence of god(s).
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02-04-2016, 05:35 PM
RE: Rational Thought
(02-04-2016 04:57 PM)diversesynergy Wrote:  I don't necessarily mean spatial dimensions - they could be dimensions of time, or a totally different type of dimension we have utterly no comprehension of within our own universe.

An entity with three spatial dimensions NECESSARILY exists within two dimensions also. Eg a cube exists in 3 dimensions as a cube, but also exists in 2 dimensions as a square.

Actually, the main point was my OP - I wanted the explanation of why you can declare any rationality (or logic, or math or whatever you choose to call it) behind anything your brain concludes, if your very premise is that you are just a product of the matter of this universe. You'd need a benchmark separate to what your own brain tells you is logically valid.

But it is not what just one brain of one of us here believes. These premises are built on logic from experiments over the decades. What I can invent in my own mind at the moment is not relevant, but what science has proven is in a different category.
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02-04-2016, 05:35 PM
RE: Rational Thought
ClydeLee. Maybe no-one here is a thinking atheist, I just came here with the hope of getting a logical answer to what is a bit of a paradox of a question.

I actually genuinely came here with goodwill to begin with, but no-one has been particularly welcoming (as in genuinely, rather than sarcastically) and I feel a bit set upon to be honest. I would have more respect if just one person had said "yeah, great question - I don't know the answer, it is a logical problem that you have to rely on your own brain to interpret this universe. Thanks for kicking off an interesting debate, I hold a different worldview to you but I can respect we are both searching for meanings and answers in this universe." That would at least have been scientifically authentic, not to mention respectful.

If atheism is supposedly the shining beacon for "tolerance", in a world supposedly made so "intolerant" by religion, then some of the posters on these forums are far from paragons of that vision.
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02-04-2016, 05:36 PM
RE: Rational Thought
DerFish

Give me an example of something that you consider to be scientifically proven. It can be as simple as you like.
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02-04-2016, 05:39 PM
RE: Rational Thought
Jennybee

Give me something you consider you have concrete "evidence" of. Say your brain is really plugged into a computer mainframe somewhere (a la "The Matrix") - or your consciousness was just a projection and you're actually an entirely different being in an entirely different dimension (a la "Avatar"). How would you know?
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02-04-2016, 05:39 PM
RE: Rational Thought
(02-04-2016 05:36 PM)diversesynergy Wrote:  DerFish

Give me an example of something that you consider to be scientifically proven. It can be as simple as you like.

The sun is hot!
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02-04-2016, 05:42 PM
RE: Rational Thought
DerFish

See my post to Jennybee. If you were plugged into the Matrix, and a computer is stimulating your brain to believe you are here on Earth feeling the sun's heat. How would you know? Where is your evidence you can trust your brain/senses?
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