Rational Thought
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03-04-2016, 01:46 AM
RE: Rational Thought
(03-04-2016 01:32 AM)DLJ Wrote:  
(03-04-2016 12:45 AM)EvolutionKills Wrote:  ...
Solpicism is a dead end, full stop.
...

Yabut, it does have one good thing going for it ...

Whereas agnostic-atheism leaves a tiny bit of room for the existence of a non-interventionist, igniter-deity ... solipsism gives you 100% certainty that any and all deities are ex imaginatione.

Angel

To a solipicist, everything is ex imaginatione. Rolleyes

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03-04-2016, 02:17 AM (This post was last modified: 03-04-2016 02:21 AM by Deesse23.)
RE: Rational Thought
Quote:In my experience, those who demand empirical evidence to believe something are the only one's who don't take solipsism seriously - and it is because their entire worldview implodes with the fact that you cannot prove that you can trust your own brain/senses.

This is not semantics, it is a logical fact. All of your supposed "mathematics" and "logic" hinges on the assumption you are really here on Earth, and you can really count things, and that there really is such a thing as gravity etc.

Beliefs inform actions. As a a self proclaimed critical thinker and scientist, i refuse to push people off the next best availiable 5 story building, because i think gravity really does exist and will end their life at impact. As an atheist i dont pray or worship to anything. I am trying to think rational and trying (well, with a certain success ratre, i am a mere human) to act rational.

Now, you seem to agrue in favour of solipsism, and if you truly believe what you are arguing for, then please shove someone off the next building, then come back, and have a good laugh at us "stupid" atheists.

Or are you just here to stroke your own little ego by jerking off in circles about solipsism on a www forum ?

Put up or shut up.
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03-04-2016, 02:24 AM
RE: Rational Thought
Deesse23

Thank-you for telling me what I am arguing for, and then countering that. That is sure far easier than answering what I actually asked.

I don't argue for solipsism. I think I am really here on Earth. I cannot prove it, I am happy to take it on FAITH that I can trust my senses - in the same way that you have to take this same thing on faith too.

My question is how do you, as an empiricist, square the problem that everything you see, measure and test in the lab empirically, necessarily doesn't actually prove anything - because fundamentally you cannot prove that your senses are reliable.

Sure, that sounds a bit like solipsism - but that is not what I am arguing for.

So, care to answer my question - how does an empiricist get round this problem? Or is it ok to give it a Gallic shrug, and say it's fine to "take it as read" that your senses are reliable?
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03-04-2016, 02:33 AM
RE: Rational Thought
Hello again. Smile

(03-04-2016 02:24 AM)diversesynergy Wrote:  I don't argue for solipsism. I think I am really here on Earth. I cannot prove it, I am happy to take it on FAITH that I can trust my senses - in the same way that you have to take this same thing on faith too.

So.. you're not arguing for/with/as solipsism... buuut.... you then go on to effectively say that your outlook is pretty much solipsistic (Is that a word?)

I also think there's an equivocation(Am I using the right term?) in that; "I am happy to take it on FAITH that I can trust my senses - in the same way that you have to take this same thing on faith too."

Since I'm pretty sure others have replied that, since their world views aren't solipsistic then they aren't taking their reality view on 'Faith' but that their reality views are taken on.. well.. reality. Consider

(03-04-2016 02:24 AM)diversesynergy Wrote:  Sure, that sounds a bit like solipsism - but that is not what I am arguing for.

So.. if you're not arguing for/from a point of solipsism... what position are you arguing from? Consider

Please bear with me. I am in no way knowledgeable within the things people are talking about i this thread and am quickly trying to add a post before toddling off to work. Smile

Also, I look forward to your conversation interactions with EvolutionKills and DLJ.

Much cheers to all.
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03-04-2016, 02:50 AM
RE: Rational Thought
Ok, so you are here to jerk off. Im not gonna waste my time with that.

Please come back after you found someting better than "reality exists, i am operating within that basic assumption and applying logic and critical, rational thinking and am having consistent results." Thats good enough for me.

Please come back with your results for your basic view on reality (or whatever you live in) when you are finished with jerking off here.

And, no, you were arguing in favor of solipsism, for almost 8 pages, you are starting to become dishonest, and will be called out for it very soon.
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03-04-2016, 03:38 AM (This post was last modified: 03-04-2016 04:01 AM by EvolutionKills.)
RE: Rational Thought
(03-04-2016 02:24 AM)diversesynergy Wrote:  My question is how do you, as an empiricist, square the problem that everything you see, measure and test in the lab empirically, necessarily doesn't actually prove anything - because fundamentally you cannot prove that your senses are reliable.


Because you can test them... Facepalm


All you need is to accept that your senses are reliable some of the time, and once you do that, you can empirically test them and verify the results. Take 2 rocks, place them in a pile. Take 3 more rocks, place them in another pile. Combine both piles, add up the rocks, you now have 5 rocks. This reality, whether or not it is the be-all-end-all or if we're all just AI's in a Matrix-like simulation, appears to be consistent. No matter how many times you take those rocks, split them up, and bring them back together; you'll have those same 5 rocks (also, you've now just empirically demonstrated basic algebra, congrats). Measure their speed of descent in free fall, and that too will be consistent. Measure their mass, that too will remain consistent.


So even if we all are AI's in a simulation, it doesn't matter, because our shared reality is both consistent and predictable. We also regularly take into account, and can compensate for, our flawed and often subjective experiences. It's why we invented thermometers to measure temperature and scales to measure mass, they help us to remove subjectivity. 72 degrees Fahrenheit might be cool to one person and warm to another, but 72 degrees is 72 degrees.



Oh, and for the record, you are arguing for solipsism.

Epistemological solipsism is the philosophical viewpoint that nothing can be proven beyond the existence of the self. Popularly identified with the phrase cogito ergo sum, solipsism holds that no perception felt by the mind can be regarded as truly verifiable, and so its existence is not certain. Hence, nothing outside the mind of the observer can be rationally confirmed.

http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Solipsism

(03-04-2016 02:24 AM)diversesynergy Wrote:  ...because fundamentally you cannot prove that your senses are reliable.

RationalWiki Wrote:...no perception felt by the mind can be regarded as truly verifiable, and so its existence is not certain

^ That is, more or less, exactly what you are arguing for. Please educate yourself. ^

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03-04-2016, 05:05 AM
RE: Rational Thought
(03-04-2016 01:32 AM)DLJ Wrote:  
(03-04-2016 12:45 AM)EvolutionKills Wrote:  ...
Solpicism is a dead end, full stop.
...

Yabut, it does have one good thing going for it ...

Whereas agnostic-atheism leaves a tiny bit of room for the existence of a non-interventionist, igniter-deity ... solipsism gives you 100% certainty that any and all deities are ex imaginatione.

Angel

Except for the solipsist himself. Creating reality seems rather god-like, eh?

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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03-04-2016, 05:16 AM
RE: Rational Thought
(03-04-2016 05:05 AM)Chas Wrote:  
(03-04-2016 01:32 AM)DLJ Wrote:  Yabut, it does have one good thing going for it ...

Whereas agnostic-atheism leaves a tiny bit of room for the existence of a non-interventionist, igniter-deity ... solipsism gives you 100% certainty that any and all deities are ex imaginatione.

Angel

Except for the solipsist himself. Creating reality seems rather god-like, eh?

I bet he thinks i accused him of lying, but.....maybe his senses are just fooling him. After all, probably i dont even exist.
Maybe everything that has been written in this useless thread hasnt actually been written, and he is just fooled by his senses. I will leave him for consideration, while i will continue my life (which is indeed maybe only a figment of his imagination). Its 20C outside after all and i have some runnng to do. I am not getting younger, ya know.
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03-04-2016, 05:38 AM
RE: Rational Thought
(03-04-2016 05:05 AM)Chas Wrote:  
(03-04-2016 01:32 AM)DLJ Wrote:  Yabut, it does have one good thing going for it ...

Whereas agnostic-atheism leaves a tiny bit of room for the existence of a non-interventionist, igniter-deity ... solipsism gives you 100% certainty that any and all deities are ex imaginatione.

Angel

Except for the solipsist himself. Creating reality seems rather god-like, eh?

Why the exception?

There is only one really serious philosophical question, and that is suicide. -Camus
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03-04-2016, 05:42 AM
RE: Rational Thought
Divereses, can you put your original question(s) into different words? Clarify conclusively what you want answered.
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