Rationalism is a religion?
Post Reply
 
Thread Rating:
  • 0 Votes - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
04-06-2017, 01:24 PM
RE: Rationalism is a religion?
(04-06-2017 12:26 PM)OmniConsUme Wrote:  But this seems new,

"Any argument which claims atheists have a better ground to interpret the Bible should be rejected on its face—the fact that you disagree with any text does not make you a better or more objective critic than one who agrees.
That is not the claim of any atheist that I've ever heard. It is just the usual facile gaslighting that believers engage in.

In truth, what a typical atheist would claim is that one should approach the text neutrally to test its claims objectively against observed reality. This would get a better assessment of whether the text is correct or not, and therefore, whether a thinking person could agree with it. What probably confuses most theists is that unbelievers typically concluded that it's all bullshit long ago; they think that's the same as rejecting it out of hand or "disagreeing" with something that, in their view, it's taboo to disagree with (or to even question). What they can't get their brains around is that (1) one can and should question holy writ and (2) how there is not only very little evidence in support of holy writ's veracity -- there is not the slightest shred of evidence, anywhere in its favor. At least for those who have decent evidentiary standards, and understand how to avoid logical fallacies and confirmation bias, who understand burden of proof, and so forth.
(04-06-2017 12:26 PM)OmniConsUme Wrote:  The claim that people who deeply study scripture tend to become atheists is also one of these wishful-thinking atheist cliches which I wish would go away.
I'll bet he DOES wish that; alas, it is true -- again, providing you study scripture like you'd study anything else, no special pleading allowed, no up-front assumptions of its veracity and provenance, etc.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 2 users Like mordant's post
04-06-2017, 01:36 PM
RE: Rationalism is a religion?
(04-06-2017 01:00 PM)Cosmo Wrote:  They fail to realize that there is a large difference between stating evidence (or lack thereof as we'll often call out) and just repeating something because an ancient book said so.

I've had similar discussions with believers when they start spouting bible verses. I'll listen politely for a while, then start asking them some questions about the veracity of their holy book.

The questions are summed up in one of the very first threads I made here on TTA. Might be worth a look if you're interested.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes Heath_Tierney's post
04-06-2017, 01:48 PM
RE: Rationalism is a religion?
(04-06-2017 12:13 PM)OmniConsUme Wrote:  Rationalism is a religion?
I keep hearing this crap from Christians and even one deist who thinks UFO's are real.

It's getting annoying, And I know this is a common Topic,

Most of the time such claims stem from a shallow understanding of what it means to be a religion, often basing it on the dictionary definition which states that a religion is any practice ardently pursued (in spite of the fact that this definition is only figurative). When confronted with such claims, I like to broaden things out by referring to Ninian Smart's classic 7 dimensions of religion. It doesn't usually shut them up, but it gives a more substantial base for refuting the claim.

Quote:The Seven Dimensions of Religion (Ninian Smart)
  • Ritual: Forms and orders of ceremonies (private and/or public) (often regarded as revealed)
  • Narrative and Mythic: stories (often regarded as revealed) that work on several levels. Sometimes narratives fit together into a fairly complete and systematic interpretation of the universe and human's place in it.
  • Experiential and emotional: dread, guilt, awe, mystery, devotion, liberation, ecstasy, inner peace, bliss (private)
  • Social and Institutional: belief system is shared and attitudes practiced by a group. Often rules for identifying community membership and participation (public)
  • Ethical and legal: Rules about human behavior (often regarded as revealed from supernatural realm)
  • Doctrinal and philosophical: systematic formulation of religious teachings in an intellectually coherent form
  • Material: ordinary objects or places that symbolize or manifest the sacred or supernatural
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes big green mouth's post
04-06-2017, 02:18 PM
RE: Rationalism is a religion?
What a load of nonsense.

Why anyone would not want to try to be rational is confusing enough in itself.

I have a website here which discusses the issues and terminology surrounding religion and atheism. It's hopefully user friendly to all.
Visit this user's website Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes Robvalue's post
04-06-2017, 02:22 PM
RE: Rationalism is a religion?
(04-06-2017 01:24 PM)mordant Wrote:  
(04-06-2017 12:26 PM)OmniConsUme Wrote:  The claim that people who deeply study scripture tend to become atheists is also one of these wishful-thinking atheist cliches which I wish would go away.
I'll bet he DOES wish that; alas, it is true -- again, providing you study scripture like you'd study anything else, no special pleading allowed, no up-front assumptions of its veracity and provenance, etc.
That's how mine occurred. I destroyed my writings but I spent years studying. I realized that no matter the translation and explanation it wasn't real to me anymore.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 2 users Like Clockwork's post
04-06-2017, 03:23 PM
RE: Rationalism is a religion?
(04-06-2017 12:13 PM)OmniConsUme Wrote:  But, I am in the view that science can test "the supernatural"...

Nope... science doesn't waste its time "testing" the claims of supernaturalists. It'd be like me trying to "prove" that unicorns don't exist. Why bother?

I'm a creationist... I believe that man created God.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 2 users Like SYZ's post
04-06-2017, 03:56 PM
RE: Rationalism is a religion?
(04-06-2017 12:13 PM)OmniConsUme Wrote:  Rationalism is a religion?
I keep hearing this crap from Christians and even one deist who thinks UFO's are real.

Well, it's a step forward that they realize that having a religion is a bad thing, right?

Quote:It's getting annoying, And I know this is a common Topic,

But, I am in the view that science can test "the supernatural".
We just haven't found convincing proof of anything, that can be explained by other means Drinking Beverage

How can science test the supernatural? If it can be tested it's pretty much natural by definition.

Quote:Another thing do you sometimes catch you or other Atheists doing a logical fallacy too?

Sure, everybody gets things wrong sometimes. The important thing is what you do when the fallacy is pointed out to you.

Atheism: it's not just for communists any more!
America July 4 1776 - November 8 2016 RIP
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
04-06-2017, 05:03 PM
RE: Rationalism is a religion?
SSDD

(04-06-2017 12:13 PM)OmniConsUme Wrote:  Rationalism is a religion?

Rationalism build no altars, adheres to no dogma, and worships no deities.

When they refuse to accept this, insist on tax-exempt status for all scientists.

(04-06-2017 12:26 PM)OmniConsUme Wrote:  "Any argument which claims atheists have a better ground to interpret the Bible should be rejected on its face—the fact that you disagree with any text does not make you a better or more objective critic than one who agrees.

Being an atheist does not, in and of itself, make one qualified to accurately critique the Bible. But on what basis can the faithful objectively evaluate scripture? Having begun with The Truth™ they will neither seek nor find an accurate assessment of their scriptures.

And at the end of the day we're left wondering why the word of Gawd AllMighty needs mortal "interpretation". You'd expect better from the Divine than these used car salesmen apologists.

---
Flesh and blood of a dead star, slain in the apocalypse of supernova, resurrected by four billion years of continuous autocatalytic reaction and crowned with the emergent property of sentience in the dream that the universe might one day understand itself.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 2 users Like Paleophyte's post
04-06-2017, 05:06 PM
RE: Rationalism is a religion?
(04-06-2017 01:36 PM)Heath_Tierney Wrote:  
(04-06-2017 01:00 PM)Cosmo Wrote:  They fail to realize that there is a large difference between stating evidence (or lack thereof as we'll often call out) and just repeating something because an ancient book said so.

I've had similar discussions with believers when they start spouting bible verses. I'll listen politely for a while, then start asking them some questions about the veracity of their holy book.

The questions are summed up in one of the very first threads I made here on TTA. Might be worth a look if you're interested.

I'll give it a read, of course. Smile

~ The Universe is under no obligation to make sense to you ~
-Neil Degrasse Tyson
[Image: stairway_to_heaven_by_tomtr.png]
~ 0 ~
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
04-06-2017, 05:45 PM
RE: Rationalism is a religion?
(04-06-2017 02:18 PM)Robvalue Wrote:  What a load of nonsense.

Why anyone would not want to try to be rational is confusing enough in itself.

It's simple. For many people, rationality does not lead to what they want to be true. So they look for a way to trump rationality. Religion, occultism, pseudoscience, mysticism. Wrong headed theology, philosophy, tradition, politics,
or an entire way of life.

For many brought up believing in such things, rationality and reason is an enemy as it threatens cherished beliefs. It means throwing out principles that are the foundation of all they believe and starting from scratch. It may mean throwing out the basics of what they see as their culture, or national identity. And that is a frightening and disorientating feeling for many.

Irrational thinking can have deep roots.

When I shake my ignore file, I can hear them buzzing!

Cheerful Charlie
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 5 users Like Cheerful Charlie's post
Post Reply
Forum Jump: