Rationalism is a religion?
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05-06-2017, 01:51 AM
RE: Rationalism is a religion?
You are spot on. Well stated!

I have a website here which discusses the issues and terminology surrounding religion and atheism. It's hopefully user friendly to all.
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05-06-2017, 02:13 AM (This post was last modified: 05-06-2017 03:22 AM by Dark Light.)
RE: Rationalism is a religion?
(04-06-2017 12:13 PM)OmniConsUme Wrote:  Rationalism is a religion?
I keep hearing this crap from Christians and even one deist who thinks UFO's are real.

It's getting annoying, And I know this is a common Topic,

But, I am in the view that science can test "the supernatural".
We just haven't found convincing proof of anything, that can be explained by other means Drinking Beverage

Another thing do you sometimes catch you or other Atheists doing a logical fallacy too?

One can be rational, and religious simultaneously, I think. What you may really be getting at is, 'can atheists be dogmatic in a way that religion often manifests itself?'. If that is what you mean, then absolutely yes. You can be an atheist and be all sorts of other things. You can even believe in souls and an afterlife, and unicorns. Much more common though, you can be a ideologue of a political philosophy.

Two minor points that is not the main point of your post:

UFO's are just flying objects that have not been able to be identified. There are innumerable objects recorded that fit that description. If you simply mean extra-terrestrial flying vehicles, then those claims become much more dubious and unlikely, and would require much more heavily scrutinized evidence to 'prove' their provenance is other-worldly. Still not necessarily irrational though, just far more unlikely.

Secondly, the supernatural, in my view, is something that is definitionally incapable of being explained by science. The moment a phenomena is explained by science it ceases to be supernatural, and just becomes an understood part of the natural universe.

Cheers.

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05-06-2017, 03:54 AM
RE: Rationalism is a religion?
To some people, the application of the scientific method could look like a religion I guess. I wish it had another name so that people wouldn't turn it off at the sound of the words. In fact, if they applied it to some of their beliefs, their beliefs would be better. Well, in my opinion that is. Of course that implies learning something about the world around them, including themselves. That could ruin a belief.
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05-06-2017, 05:45 AM (This post was last modified: 05-06-2017 06:42 AM by Silly Deity.)
RE: Rationalism is a religion?
Religions posit that a god or gods exist.

Reason tells us that not all gods can be real. Therefore, some or all gods must be fake.

Some believers are convinced through faith. Reason tells us that faith works for all gods. Therefore faith works for fake gods.

Some believers are convinced by their love of god. Many different gods are loved by believers. Reason tells us therefore that you can love a fake god.

Some believers are inspired by their holy books. All religions are inspired by their holy books. Reason therefore tells us that fake holy books can be inspiring.

Rationalism, through reason and evidence is the only proven way to distinguish truth from untruth. No gods can be shown to exist using reason and evidence.

Therefore.............what should you believe?

The invisible and the non-existent look very much alike
Excreta Tauri Sapientam Fulgeat (The excrement of the bull causes wisdom to flee)
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05-06-2017, 05:59 AM
RE: Rationalism is a religion?
(05-06-2017 02:13 AM)Dark Light Wrote:  One can be rational, and religious simultaneously, I think.

Actually you have to alternate between the two.

Hobo
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05-06-2017, 09:58 AM
RE: Rationalism is a religion?
(04-06-2017 01:24 PM)mordant Wrote:  
(04-06-2017 12:26 PM)OmniConsUme Wrote:  The claim that people who deeply study scripture tend to become atheists is also one of these wishful-thinking atheist cliches which I wish would go away.
I'll bet he DOES wish that; alas, it is true -- again, providing you study scripture like you'd study anything else, no special pleading allowed, no up-front assumptions of its veracity and provenance, etc.

This is why I'm not sure I have a problem with taxpayer-funded school vouchers for parochial schools. I went to a Lutheran school K-9 and witnessed first hand that there is nothing more efficient at turning out atheists than a proper Christian education. Of the 10 or so out of 30 classmates I still keep in touch with going on some 50 years later, all of us are atheists. It's not the anecdotal observation which persuades me, but rather that I clearly see the mechanism of action having experienced it first hand.

There is only one really serious philosophical question, and that is suicide. -Camus
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05-06-2017, 03:21 PM
RE: Rationalism is a religion?
(05-06-2017 05:59 AM)Thoreauvian Wrote:  
(05-06-2017 02:13 AM)Dark Light Wrote:  One can be rational, and religious simultaneously, I think.

Actually you have to alternate between the two.

Hobo

I disagree. It depends entirely upon the religious claims being made.

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05-06-2017, 03:29 PM
RE: Rationalism is a religion?
(05-06-2017 03:21 PM)Dark Light Wrote:  
(05-06-2017 05:59 AM)Thoreauvian Wrote:  Actually you have to alternate between the two.

Hobo

I disagree. It depends entirely upon the religious claims being made.

Yeah, I knew you disagreed.

Please name a religious claim which you think accords with rationality. (Please be sure to name something which isn't an "add on" to rationalize religion -- something not really supported by Biblical, Quranic, or other holy texts.)
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05-06-2017, 04:05 PM
RE: Rationalism is a religion?
(05-06-2017 03:29 PM)Thoreauvian Wrote:  
(05-06-2017 03:21 PM)Dark Light Wrote:  I disagree. It depends entirely upon the religious claims being made.

Yeah, I knew you disagreed.

Please name a religious claim which you think accords with rationality. (Please be sure to name something which isn't an "add on" to rationalize religion -- something not really supported by Biblical, Quranic, or other holy texts.)

I see where you are confused by my posts.

I know of no organized religion whose doctrines are consistent with reality as commonly understood, with the possible exception of those requiring supernatural intervention. In the case of the latter, at best you could say the individual subscribers are not being pragmatic, though this doesn't make their beliefs irrational from a technical standpoint. However, I was primarily referring to 'personal religions'. This is increasingly popular as organized religions claims have largely been shown to be impossible to reconcile with the scientific realities we know understand, to the degree that we do understand reality. For example, you could show the Noah's Ark story to be practically impossible to be literally true, but I could still believe in a God that emit's love and care's for us, and gives me warm fuzzy feelings, and gives reason to be hopeful about surviving death without prescribing any claims that are testable.

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05-06-2017, 04:21 PM
RE: Rationalism is a religion?
(05-06-2017 09:58 AM)GirlyMan Wrote:  
(04-06-2017 01:24 PM)mordant Wrote:  I'll bet he DOES wish that; alas, it is true -- again, providing you study scripture like you'd study anything else, no special pleading allowed, no up-front assumptions of its veracity and provenance, etc.

This is why I'm not sure I have a problem with taxpayer-funded school vouchers for parochial schools. I went to a Lutheran school K-9 and witnessed first hand that there is nothing more efficient at turning out atheists than a proper Christian education. Of the 10 or so out of 30 classmates I still keep in touch with going on some 50 years later, all of us are atheists. It's not the anecdotal observation which persuades me, but rather that I clearly see the mechanism of action having experienced it first hand.
Well the problem of course is that all religiously-sponsored schools are not created equal, and not all children are equally vulnerable to the Kool-Aid. Substitute, say, "Assembly of God" or "Church of God in Christ" or even "Jehovah's Witnesses" for "Lutheran", and follow any 10 classmates into adulthood, and the results might be different. Substitute a very compliant / submissive / sensitive child, and the results might be different.
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