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31-05-2013, 07:49 PM (This post was last modified: 31-05-2013 10:35 PM by Bucky Ball.)
RE: Read "Life Before Life"
(31-05-2013 01:51 PM)Egor Wrote:  It tips the balance.

LOL. "Solid scientific evidence". Hahaha. I see what your friend means about you being all about humor. You should run for forum clown, since you *need* a position here. There is and never was a "balance to be tipped". So if the ballance was "tipped", then all the atheist members of the National Academy of Science all went running to church last weekend. Oh they didn't ? It might raise a few questions, which the book fails to answer. Good thing you're not in science. It's bunk, and it's not reviewed by anyone outside the original group, that won't even disclose how their cohort was formed, how they recruited their subjects, or what controls were used. The real review in Amazon shows how much is not disclosed. No peer review. It's junk science. No control group. No null hypothesis. Just a bunch of anecdotes. The fact is you believe in woo, and would resort to ANYTHING to confirm your self proclaimed woo.

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31-05-2013, 07:57 PM
RE: Read "Life Before Life"
(31-05-2013 02:29 PM)bemore Wrote:  
(31-05-2013 02:13 PM)Egor Wrote:  Look, I just had a very clear precognitive dream--again--night before last. The very next day, I saw the same images on a video we had bought from the $5 bin at walmart. I had never even heard of the movie before, much less ever saw it. And there was no psychological reason for the image to be in my dream. During the movie I even said to myself, "I suppose they'll show her from above," because that's how I saw it in the dream, and immediately the camera angle in the movie switched to showing her from above, which was exactly as I had seen in the dream.

I have had a similar experience regarding dreams that I have wrote about before on this forum.

To cut a long story short me and two work colleagues were in our wagon going to the recycling plant when we pulled up at some traffic lights. I told them I had dreamed this before and a woman is going to walk around the corner pushing a pushchair with some bags on the handles. I gave a quick description of her and low and behold she walked around the corner. My two work colleagues were aghast lol.

Whilst I find it very strange I don't actually attribute it to anything. I look for other explanations (like maybe I had seen her in a reflection in a shop window set at an angle that could show whats around the corner without consciously registering it) but that wouldn't... or it may?... explain the feeling of Deja-Vu I got with it at the time.

I know (or it feels that I do) that I defo dreamed it though. Its quite strange to explain when I dreamed it as to me they feel timeless Huh

Sounds like deja vu all over again Bemore.

See here they are, the bruises, some were self-inflicted and some showed up along the way. - JF
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31-05-2013, 10:59 PM
 
RE: Read "Life Before Life"
(31-05-2013 02:26 PM)KeenIdiot Wrote:  Family doesn't need to lie, lots of this sort of stuff comes from confirmation bias propping up claims. Look at what happens in cold reading.

What woo is making a claim with no real evidence and equating it with real well understood science

I've read what you said now five times and I still don't know what you're trying to say. I'm done.

(31-05-2013 02:29 PM)bemore Wrote:  I have had a similar experience regarding dreams that I have wrote about before on this forum.

To cut a long story short me and two work colleagues were in our wagon going to the recycling plant when we pulled up at some traffic lights. I told them I had dreamed this before and a woman is going to walk around the corner pushing a pushchair with some bags on the handles. I gave a quick description of her and low and behold she walked around the corner. My two work colleagues were aghast lol.

LOL? that's it? LOL? Whatever. I don't give a shit. If you want to be an atheist for whatever reason gets you off to be an atheist, then be one. Personally, I think you're throwing a great talent down the toilet--but hey, it's your life. Do what you want.

Quote:Whilst I find it very strange I don't actually attribute it to anything. I look for other explanations (like maybe I had seen her in a reflection in a shop window set at an angle that could show whats around the corner without consciously registering it) but that wouldn't... or it may?... explain the feeling of Deja-Vu I got with it at the time.

I know (or it feels that I do) that I defo dreamed it though. Its quite strange to explain when I dreamed it as to me they feel timeless Huh

Strong precognition like that has a disorienting effect. When I had a precognitive dream about a school massacre in Dunblain, Scotland, I actually felt that I was going insane. I began to believe that the whole dream never occured. But I had told my wife about it, so I know that it did occur.

Anyway, Bemore. You need to be an atheist, a materialist, for psychological reasons, so be that thing. But when you say stuff like that, and then act like you're a materialist, you look like a fool. Seriously. So you need to drop one or the other.
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31-05-2013, 11:09 PM
 
RE: Read "Life Before Life"
(31-05-2013 07:49 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  LOL. "Solid scientific evidence". Hahaha. I see what your friend means about you being all about humor. You should run for forum clown, since you *need* a position here. There is and never was a "balance to be tipped". So if the ballance was "tipped", then all the atheist members of the National Academy of Science all went running to church last weekend. Oh they didn't ? It might raise a few questions, which the book fails to answer. Good thing you're not in science. It's bunk, and it's not reviewed by anyone outside the original group, that won't even disclose how their cohort was formed, how they recruited their subjects, or what controls were used. The real review in Amazon shows how much is not disclosed. No peer review. It's junk science. No control group. No null hypothesis. Just a bunch of anecdotes. The fact is you believe in woo, and would resort to ANYTHING to confirm your self proclaimed woo.

The book talks about the fact that it's not "proof." It is anecdotal evidence. What else would it be? But what you’re saying is that it's all a big conspiracy. All the families are lying, all the kids have been coached, and the investigators fudged all the stuff that didn't fit. Now who's resorting to ANYTHING to confirm their belief?

What makes you atheists look so foolish is that all it takes is one bit of anomalous evidence to bring down your house of cards, so you have to fight tooth and nail to reject everything that is not strictly materialistic. But that means you have to reject all the experiences that so many people have had in the area of psi, past life memories, near death experiences, et al. You can't just reject these things as a group, you have to reject each and every claim ever made in the history of mankind--or else your materialism fails, and if your materialism fails, your atheism looks foolish.
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31-05-2013, 11:47 PM
RE: Read "Life Before Life"
(31-05-2013 02:13 PM)Egor Wrote:  And there was no psychological reason for the image to be in my dream.

There are indeed psychological reasons for the image to be in your brain.

You're a middle aged man who's been watching movies his whole life. Movie makers still pan over shots the same ways they panned over shots in 1945. They have better cameras, man lifts and editing processes now than they did then but they still pan over shots the same way they did 65 years ago.

Dreams can disobey they laws of physics and the laws of time but they cannot disobey the laws of drawing upon past experiences. You had past experiences that caused you to have a dream and then you went to a store the next day. Your subconscious mind drew your attention to the picture on the movie you bought and there is no mystery in the revelation that the movie included a scene where the camera panned across the scene you had in your dream.

Unless of course, you argue that the minutia was similar in both the dream and the movie. In which case, I would hazard a guess that a movie on the discount rack was probably a remake of a B movie you saw as a three year old. It may have even been a C movie dubbed to DVD.

In any event, we know that the human brain doesn't forget things. Our conscious mind forgets but our unconscious/subconscious doesn't. We also know that cognitive abilities are gained relatively early... in utero. Thus squashing the long held religious belief that children can't remember events until around the age of five.

And that segues to the claims that five year olds have recounted past lives. Children are naturally empirical, simply because they have little information to draw from. However, they are also given to fantastical thinking, because that's the part of our cognizance which facilitates innovation. In simple terms, a child can fantasize and role play in one moment but they can also, when normally developed, differentiate between fantasy and reality not long after they understand object constancy.

So what your book's author has used as evidence is a few children who have lived long enough to have compiled a cache of subconscious memories and who have been given the opportunity to narrate a story based on their natural ability to fantasize.

In the end, he has provided no evidence for duality. He has, however, demonstrated ignorance of psychology and neurology in his attempt to explain the emergent properties of energy and matter as woo.

The beginning of wisdom is to call things by their right names. - Chinese Proverb
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01-06-2013, 12:18 AM
 
RE: Read "Life Before Life"
(31-05-2013 11:47 PM)bbeljefe Wrote:  There are indeed psychological reasons for the image to be in your brain.

You're a middle aged man who's been watching movies his whole life. Movie makers still pan over shots the same ways they panned over shots in 1945. They have better cameras, man lifts and editing processes now than they did then but they still pan over shots the same way they did 65 years ago.

So what? The girl looked similar, had a similar body, and I predicted the shot was about to occur.

Quote:Dreams can disobey they laws of physics and the laws of time but they cannot disobey the laws of drawing upon past experiences. You had past experiences that caused you to have a dream and then you went to a store the next day. Your subconscious mind drew your attention to the picture on the movie you bought and there is no mystery in the revelation that the movie included a scene where the camera panned across the scene you had in your dream.

We bought the movie the day before we watched it, and there were no pictures of the girl on the DVD case.

Quote:Unless of course, you argue that the minutia was similar in both the dream and the movie. In which case, I would hazard a guess that a movie on the discount rack was probably a remake of a B movie you saw as a three year old. It may have even been a C movie dubbed to DVD.

You're grabbing at straws now. [Image: 27.gif]

Quote:So what your book's author has used as evidence is a few children who have lived long enough to have compiled a cache of subconscious memories and who have been given the opportunity to narrate a story based on their natural ability to fantasize.

In the end, he has provided no evidence for duality. He has, however, demonstrated ignorance of psychology and neurology in his attempt to explain the emergent properties of energy and matter as woo.

The man's a psychiatrist, but you think he's "ignorant" of psychology and neurology because he's discovered something you can't deal with.

Welcome to fundamentalism. Yes
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01-06-2013, 05:45 AM
RE: Read "Life Before Life"
(31-05-2013 11:09 PM)Egor Wrote:  The book talks about the fact that it's not "proof." It is anecdotal evidence. What else would it be? But what you’re saying is that it's all a big conspiracy. All the families are lying, all the kids have been coached, and the investigators fudged all the stuff that didn't fit. Now who's resorting to ANYTHING to confirm their belief?

What makes you atheists look so foolish is that all it takes is one bit of anomalous evidence to bring down your house of cards, so you have to fight tooth and nail to reject everything that is not strictly materialistic. But that means you have to reject all the experiences that so many people have had in the area of psi, past life memories, near death experiences, et al. You can't just reject these things as a group, you have to reject each and every claim ever made in the history of mankind--or else your materialism fails, and if your materialism fails, your atheism looks foolish.

I'm saying no such thing. You said it was "solid scientific evidence". It is no such thing. It's crap science, NOT done by any scientific method that is accepted as such. Just proves you don't even know what that is.

More "You atheists" and your complete contempt for atheists.
Yet here you are, back again, on the atheist forum because you MUST be here.
You are pathetic. But you are so full of crap it's hilarious.
Forum clown fits you well.

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein Certified Ancient Astronaut Theorist
Political skeptic .. if there is a bad reason something bad might have happened, you can bet your ass, that's why it happened.
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01-06-2013, 05:56 AM
RE: Read "Life Before Life"
(31-05-2013 10:59 PM)Egor Wrote:  
(31-05-2013 02:26 PM)KeenIdiot Wrote:  Family doesn't need to lie, lots of this sort of stuff comes from confirmation bias propping up claims. Look at what happens in cold reading.

What woo is making a claim with no real evidence and equating it with real well understood science

I've read what you said now five times and I still don't know what you're trying to say. I'm done.

(31-05-2013 02:29 PM)bemore Wrote:  I have had a similar experience regarding dreams that I have wrote about before on this forum.

To cut a long story short me and two work colleagues were in our wagon going to the recycling plant when we pulled up at some traffic lights. I told them I had dreamed this before and a woman is going to walk around the corner pushing a pushchair with some bags on the handles. I gave a quick description of her and low and behold she walked around the corner. My two work colleagues were aghast lol.

LOL? that's it? LOL? Whatever. I don't give a shit. If you want to be an atheist for whatever reason gets you off to be an atheist, then be one. Personally, I think you're throwing a great talent down the toilet--but hey, it's your life. Do what you want.

Quote:Whilst I find it very strange I don't actually attribute it to anything. I look for other explanations (like maybe I had seen her in a reflection in a shop window set at an angle that could show whats around the corner without consciously registering it) but that wouldn't... or it may?... explain the feeling of Deja-Vu I got with it at the time.

I know (or it feels that I do) that I defo dreamed it though. Its quite strange to explain when I dreamed it as to me they feel timeless Huh

Strong precognition like that has a disorienting effect. When I had a precognitive dream about a school massacre in Dunblain, Scotland, I actually felt that I was going insane. I began to believe that the whole dream never occured. But I had told my wife about it, so I know that it did occur.

Anyway, Bemore. You need to be an atheist, a materialist, for psychological reasons, so be that thing. But when you say stuff like that, and then act like you're a materialist, you look like a fool. Seriously. So you need to drop one or the other.

Now you're giving free psychiatric advice. Or did you read his natal chart to get that?

Anyway, Ed, you need to be a fool, a dualist, for psychological reasons, so be that thing. But when you spout this crap, you are a fool. Seriously. You need to drop out of here.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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01-06-2013, 01:09 PM
RE: Read "Life Before Life"
(31-05-2013 10:59 PM)Egor Wrote:  Anyway, Bemore. You need to be an atheist, a materialist, for psychological reasons, so be that thing. But when you say stuff like that, and then act like you're a materialist, you look like a fool. Seriously. So you need to drop one or the other.

Ive told you before Ed that the loosest way of describing my beliefs is I am a pantheist bordering on Agnostic (with a nihlist approach), although I don't believe in any description put forward that describes/explains "god" because if anything of that nature does exist I don't think it could be described. It would be like describing infinity.

The truth is I don't know, I could think I know but that would discount all other information. I would rather have my "third person" view that attempts to see all sides of something... its this "Third person" view that allows me to discuss and share these things with you other than mock you like the rest of the forum.

So if you wish to keep labeling me like everybody else then just say so and I wont participate in any more of your discussions.

For no matter how much I use these symbols, to describe symptoms of my existence.
You are your own emphasis.
So I say nothing.

-Bemore.
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01-06-2013, 01:21 PM
RE: Read "Life Before Life"
Is Egor actually saying you need to pick something and be that? For psychological reasons? And if you don't do that, you look like a fool? But he can be one of everyfuckingthing in a short period of time and it's okay? Is it okay as long as you are only one thing at a time?

Oh hell, I need to start drinking.

See here they are, the bruises, some were self-inflicted and some showed up along the way. - JF
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