Reading the Bible
Post Reply
 
Thread Rating:
  • 0 Votes - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
15-03-2012, 08:46 AM
RE: Reading the Bible
(15-03-2012 08:38 AM)Denicio Wrote:  1. Get the standard translation thats been used for ever. Dont let some of the newer Christians sway you into the "New Improved, Less Offensive to women, slaves and homos" version. Nope, go with the good old KJ version or the NKJ. Its the one that all the Palin's and Bachmann's use to try and pass legislation. Its the ONE that is word for word on the monuments they want to put in the state buildings. So thats the one. Start at the first word and go straight thru....

I love you Denicio, but again, I have to disagree.

Don't do this nsguy1350. For serious debates, quoting the KJV or NKJV is not well thought of in terms of theology. KJV is translated from the Greek/Hebrew to the Vulgate to Old English (2 degrees of separation) while the NKJV adds Old English to modern English (3 degrees of separation).

Use the New American Standard Bible (NASB). It is widely considered the most accurate modern translation because it is translated directly into English from the Greek/Hebrew (1 degree of separation).

[Image: dog-shaking.gif]
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
15-03-2012, 08:56 AM
 
RE: Reading the Bible
KC,
Your argument works if we are debating educated christians on theology.
If we are talking run of the mill folk (palin, bachmann, tea party) then there is ONLY ONE translation and everything else is borderline new age (dead serious).

Pick any Southern baptist church (ahem.... that you are unwelcomed in) and poll the bibles around you. LOOK at them and tell us what you see.
Heck, i challange you to make a mission out of this. Go to a different church a week and tally what you see. Then get back to us.

You are gonna see that the KJ is what folks OWN and READ. Only a few folks break out of the mold and get the NIB or Ebonic bible.

For HUNDREDS of years the KJV has BEEN IT. Its what all the OLD apologist had worked from and its word for word the translations you see in ART that adorns home knitting from old ladies and its the translation that adorns marble monuments in alabama and adorns brass placks in a few public schools and public buildings.

9 times out of 10 when people get into a casual debate, the christians will quote from the KJ or NKJ version. Sorry chief, facts is facts.
Quote this message in a reply
15-03-2012, 09:01 AM
RE: Reading the Bible
(15-03-2012 08:56 AM)Denicio Wrote:  KC,
Your argument works if we are debating educated christians on theology.
If we are talking run of the mill folk (palin, bachmann, tea party) then there is ONLY ONE translation and everything else is borderline new age (dead serious).

Pick any Southern baptist church (ahem.... that you are unwelcomed in) and poll the bibles around you. LOOK at them and tell us what you see.
Heck, i challange you to make a mission out of this. Go to a different church a week and tally what you see. Then get back to us.

You are gonna see that the KJ is what folks OWN and READ. Only a few folks break out of the mold and get the NIB or Ebonic bible.

For HUNDREDS of years the KJV has BEEN IT. Its what all the OLD apologist had worked from and its word for word the translations you see in ART that adorns home knitting from old ladies and its the translation that adorns marble monuments in alabama and adorns brass placks in a few public schools and public buildings.

9 times out of 10 when people get into a casual debate, the christians will quote from the KJ or NKJ version. Sorry chief, facts is facts.

Oh, I'm not disagreeing with you that most people either read the NIV, KJV, or the NKJV, but that doesn't make them right.

I'm just trying to steer this guy in the right direction. I would also like to give him the heads up and pre-emp any "translation" arguments that arise. If he's using the most accurate Bible, he has the upper hand.

[Image: dog-shaking.gif]
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
15-03-2012, 09:13 AM
 
RE: Reading the Bible
KC,

The translation card is one played by all christians, including yourself.
Until you speak greek (for the NT) fluently you really cant argue it effectivly and even then its pointless unless they are truly fluent in greek. THOSE that can and DO read and understand the original greek....well...end up becoming Atheists! HA!

When i see someone get slimy by playing the 'well, you really dont get it maaaaan...the original intent of THAT verse as deemed proper by THIS translation...when read with these god goggles...while wearing THIS decoder ring' well, i see the debate as pretty much over.

If there is a god, and his intent was to be clear via the written word....he sure was POWERLESS against that from happening. Baby Jesus on Fire!!...there has to be an Armada of Apologist dispatched to translate John 11:35 properly! And even then they will all write a book defending their position and they will ALL differ from each other. Clear Communication was most certianly a HUGE weakness for the almighty!

Which reminds me...everyone RIGHT NOW go watch an episide of Mr Diety on your tube! Charlize Theron, my god and savior, commands you!
Let me help you...here is one of my favs!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mII6-IyaT3o

D
Quote this message in a reply
15-03-2012, 09:17 AM
RE: Reading the Bible
I use the translation card when it truly needs to be used.

Also, the Rev does speak Hebrew and Greek fluently, and any questions I have about the language I don't know I ask him.

[Image: dog-shaking.gif]
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
15-03-2012, 09:24 AM
 
RE: Reading the Bible
(15-03-2012 09:17 AM)kingschosen Wrote:  I use the translation card when it truly needs to be used.

Also, the Rev does speak Hebrew and Greek fluently, and any questions I have about the language I don't know I ask him.

Who's Rev? Your Rev?
Quote this message in a reply
15-03-2012, 09:51 AM
RE: Reading the Bible
(15-03-2012 09:24 AM)Denicio Wrote:  
(15-03-2012 09:17 AM)kingschosen Wrote:  I use the translation card when it truly needs to be used.

Also, the Rev does speak Hebrew and Greek fluently, and any questions I have about the language I don't know I ask him.

Who's Rev? Your Rev?

Nah. My brother. He's known as "Rev" here. Smile

[Image: dog-shaking.gif]
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
15-03-2012, 10:01 AM
 
RE: Reading the Bible
(15-03-2012 09:51 AM)kingschosen Wrote:  
(15-03-2012 09:24 AM)Denicio Wrote:  
(15-03-2012 09:17 AM)kingschosen Wrote:  I use the translation card when it truly needs to be used.

Also, the Rev does speak Hebrew and Greek fluently, and any questions I have about the language I don't know I ask him.

Who's Rev? Your Rev?

Nah. My brother. He's known as "Rev" here. Smile

I guess i am clueless, your brother?
Is your who family is on this forum too?
Oy Vey!

Back to the topic at hand. Casual debate with most folks, KJV is fine. Debating Bart Eherman or Hector Avalos, you better have some greek abilities and little bias.

ANY biblical debate, the 1st question needs to be 'what version are you working from?'.
Quote this message in a reply
15-03-2012, 10:04 AM
RE: Reading the Bible
(15-03-2012 10:01 AM)Denicio Wrote:  
(15-03-2012 09:51 AM)kingschosen Wrote:  
(15-03-2012 09:24 AM)Denicio Wrote:  
(15-03-2012 09:17 AM)kingschosen Wrote:  I use the translation card when it truly needs to be used.

Also, the Rev does speak Hebrew and Greek fluently, and any questions I have about the language I don't know I ask him.

Who's Rev? Your Rev?

Nah. My brother. He's known as "Rev" here. Smile

I guess i am clueless, your brother?
Is your who family is on this forum too?
Oy Vey!

Back to the topic at hand. Casual debate with most folks, KJV is fine. Debating Bart Eherman or Hector Avalos, you better have some greek abilities and little bias.

ANY biblical debate, the 1st question needs to be 'what version are you working from?'.

He's not... yet. But, he is referenced a lot.

Anyway, yeah, KJV is fine, but NASB is better. Remember, I'm trying to equip him with the best tools to complete the job.

[Image: dog-shaking.gif]
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
15-03-2012, 10:23 AM
 
RE: Reading the Bible
(12-03-2012 05:49 PM)nsguy1350 Wrote:  so it was nice knowing I could stump someone with the intelligence of more than my right shoe.


Thanks!

Now for my humble (ahem) opinion...this quote above i do understand but strongly feel THAT's NOT the reason to debate someone. GOTCHA moments are for Fox News and not for healthy & Sincere debate. I dont try to engage someone to STUMP them. I am simply trying to make sure they have considered all the angles. I think when KC showed up here eaerly on we revealed to him some truth about the forefathers of this nation of ours that he had gotten wrong.

I DO want a Christian to discuss stuff with me to show me something thats NEW! i have yet to hear much of anything new lately (short of a newly invented Star Trek version of Christianity). I see the same arguments and methods used and quite frankly its tiring.

Facts are Facts and the fact is there are NO, NONE, ZIP ZERO first hand eye wittiness accounts of Jesus. The earliest manuscripts are copies of copies of copies and the NT is written in a language thats not native to the events. Kinda like seeing the first stories of Paul Bunyan written in Russian, not English (or as the Tea Party would call it "American"). The authors of the Gospels are not written by those that the name bears (matthew did not write the Gosple of Matthew..etc). The current canon its self is riddled in political tomfoolery as there are SO many books omitted. The experts members (fellows) of The Jesus seminars have come to the startling conclusion that about 20% of 'the words in red' were even spoken by a dude name Jesus. See, its more than just simple bickering about which translation...thats the easy trump card that is played and is a clever distraction. The BIGGER picture, and i mean MUCH bigger picture is damning for the bible plain and simple. Taking it ALL in...and stepping back..it comes across (to me) as nothing more than a book of myths thats been grossly edited due to political pressure and pressured on the uneducated masses as a form of control and taxation (tithing).

And the end of the day, there may be a god or some supreme force. But the bible and the god of the bible aint it for SOOOOO many reasons.

When someone tells me "God is Good" I'll generally ask them "Who? Which God?" The god as described in the OT is morally inferior to Charles Manson...so that god ain't got it going on in the 'GOOD' department.

If god ain't more moral than little ole me, then why is he worth worshiping?
I've never killed or murdered. Leave out slavery and all the other crap. Not a single death by my hands. Based on that ONE fact alone, i am more moral than god.
God deserves 99 to life, not worship.

D
And EVEN MORE startling about my post above, is that new and budding clergy KNOW all this stuff. They are taught this stuff at Seminary school.

We have a member or two on THIS forum that are Ex Clergy that will attest to this.

Forget the likes of Dawkins and Hitchens. Pay close attention to those that dedicated their life to this stuff and couldn't endure the lie any longer.

Look up:
Dan Barker
Hector Avalos
Dr Robert Price
Bart Ehrman

among others, and LOOK up their Pedigree. See the degree's they EARNED (not honorary degrees) in this stuff.

The truth is out there if you search for it...........

And i have NOT EVEN brought up the whole Archeology side of the OT/NT either. Thats a gigantic argument all to its self.
The HUGE events in the OT simply did not and could not happen.
Passover, Exodus, Plagues, Wars, Armies, Kingdoms, floods...its all as factual as Zeus and Olympus!
Sure, there may have been some historical places back then..so what.
The Empire State building does not make the story of King Kong factually true!

When i get done with the 6 books i have ahead of me now i plan on spending time on the research that was done on the historical Nazereth....or the lack of one!

The truth WILL set you free..............

D
Quote this message in a reply
Post Reply
Forum Jump: