Reading through the bible again
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01-07-2014, 10:54 AM
RE: Reading through the bible again
(30-06-2014 10:14 AM)MrKrispy601 Wrote:  14 And God said, “Let there be lights in the vault of the sky to separate the day from the night, and let them serve as signs to mark sacred times, and days and years, 15 and let them be lights in the vault of the sky to give light on the earth.” And it was so. 16 God made two great lights—the greater light to govern the day and the lesser light to govern the night. He also made the stars. 17 God set them in the vault of the sky to give light on the earth, 18 to govern the day and the night, and to separate light from darkness. And God saw that it was good. 19 And there was evening, and there was morning—the fourth day.

Oh....so he created it...days after he made light? Where did the light from the third verse come from then?

This says that God placed lights in the sky; it doesn't say he created the bodies that produced those lights. The fact that the earth received light before then shows that the sun existed; apparently the atmosphere was cloudy enough so that while light could get through the sun, moon, and stars couldn't be seen. On the fourth day God cleared away the clouds so they became visible.

Sometimes people misunderstand what the Bible says because they don't read it carefully enough. This might give you a different perspective on the creation account:

http://clydeherrin.wordpress.com/2012/03...lly-say-2/

The information in ancient libraries came from real minds of real people. The far more complex information in cells came from the far more intelligent mind of God.
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01-07-2014, 11:08 AM
RE: Reading through the bible again
(30-06-2014 10:14 AM)MrKrispy601 Wrote:  So I started reading the bible from the beginning again. My first two times actually reading the whole thing I was actually in the beginning phases of my atheism. This time I went into with more understanding on scientific processes and theories. So I noticed something I never had before...the beginning of the days as noted in Genesis has some huge problems from the first few verses.

1. In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. 2 Now the earth was formless and empty, darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was hovering over the waters.

3 And God said, “Let there be light,” and there was light. 4 God saw that the light was good, and he separated the light from the darkness. 5 God called the light “day,” and the darkness he called “night.” And there was evening, and there was morning—the first day.

So I started to wonder....where is the sun? Is it just implied that he created the sun here? Even if that is the case doesn't light take years to travel the distance to the earth?

14 And God said, “Let there be lights in the vault of the sky to separate the day from the night, and let them serve as signs to mark sacred times, and days and years, 15 and let them be lights in the vault of the sky to give light on the earth.” And it was so. 16 God made two great lights—the greater light to govern the day and the lesser light to govern the night. He also made the stars. 17 God set them in the vault of the sky to give light on the earth, 18 to govern the day and the night, and to separate light from darkness. And God saw that it was good. 19 And there was evening, and there was morning—the fourth day.

Oh....so he created it...days after he made light? Where did the light from the third verse come from then? Another question this passage raises- I'm guessing the other "light" is the moon....Doesn't the moon reflect light not give it off?Blink



I seriously had to put this down for a while after just 20 verses.


I'll help you.

The guy writing it wasn't there so he doesn't actually know how it happened.

I hope that helps you and also Bucky and Chas who struggle with these concepts.
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01-07-2014, 11:18 AM (This post was last modified: 01-07-2014 11:24 AM by MrKrispy601.)
RE: Reading through the bible again
(01-07-2014 10:54 AM)theophilus Wrote:  This says that God placed lights in the sky; it doesn't say he created the bodies that produced those lights. The fact that the earth received light before then shows that the sun existed; apparently the atmosphere was cloudy enough so that while light could get through the sun, moon, and stars couldn't be seen. On the fourth day God cleared away the clouds so they became visible.

Sometimes people misunderstand what the Bible says because they don't read it carefully enough. This might give you a different perspective on the creation account:

This is an excerpt from the website you provided?

But if you read it carefully you will find that it doesn’t actually say anything about the creation of the sun and the moon. It only says that God made lights in the sky, not that he created the bodies that produced these lights. The presence of light shows that the sun already existed so there must have been some kind of cloud cover which kept the sun from being seen but still allowed its light to reach the earth. This was now removed so that the sun, moon, and stars could now be seen.

So there was something there in the beginning but they just weren't seen because of some type of cloud cover? Would you happen to have any type of diagram or something to provide an example of how and why this cloud formed? Is there something in the first few scriptures that I missed that mentioned this cloud?
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01-07-2014, 11:41 AM
RE: Reading through the bible again
(01-07-2014 10:54 AM)theophilus Wrote:  
(30-06-2014 10:14 AM)MrKrispy601 Wrote:  14 And God said, “Let there be lights in the vault of the sky to separate the day from the night, and let them serve as signs to mark sacred times, and days and years, 15 and let them be lights in the vault of the sky to give light on the earth.” And it was so. 16 God made two great lights—the greater light to govern the day and the lesser light to govern the night. He also made the stars. 17 God set them in the vault of the sky to give light on the earth, 18 to govern the day and the night, and to separate light from darkness. And God saw that it was good. 19 And there was evening, and there was morning—the fourth day.

Oh....so he created it...days after he made light? Where did the light from the third verse come from then?

This says that God placed lights in the sky; it doesn't say he created the bodies that produced those lights. The fact that the earth received light before then shows that the sun existed; apparently the atmosphere was cloudy enough so that while light could get through the sun, moon, and stars couldn't be seen. On the fourth day God cleared away the clouds so they became visible.

Sometimes people misunderstand what the Bible says because they don't read it carefully enough. This might give you a different perspective on the creation account:

http://clydeherrin.wordpress.com/2012/03...lly-say-2/

Theophilus,
Then please explain Gen.1:16, "God made two great lights—the greater light to govern the day and the lesser light to govern the night. He also made the stars."

Regards,
Doc
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01-07-2014, 11:43 AM
RE: Reading through the bible again
(01-07-2014 11:41 AM)docskeptic Wrote:  
(01-07-2014 10:54 AM)theophilus Wrote:  This says that God placed lights in the sky; it doesn't say he created the bodies that produced those lights. The fact that the earth received light before then shows that the sun existed; apparently the atmosphere was cloudy enough so that while light could get through the sun, moon, and stars couldn't be seen. On the fourth day God cleared away the clouds so they became visible.

Sometimes people misunderstand what the Bible says because they don't read it carefully enough. This might give you a different perspective on the creation account:

http://clydeherrin.wordpress.com/2012/03...lly-say-2/

Theophilus,
Then please explain Gen.1:16, "God made two great lights—the greater light to govern the day and the lesser light to govern the night. He also made the stars."

Regards,
Doc

What he said.
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01-07-2014, 12:25 PM
RE: Reading through the bible again
My big problem is that I have been reading about Michio Kaku http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyperspace_(book)

I have no idea what he is going on about as he is so far advanced in his thinking. However, he says it is impossible to rule anything out, that anything is possible including other beings who are light years more advanced than us.

Where does that take us in terms of a debate about religion?

But, even if one were to hypothesize about some "creative" force, what the heck has that got to do with how we live from day to day? Nothing. So a super powerful race of beings created life on earth, does that mean I should slap my kid or file a false tax return, or not? How life was created has nothing at all to do with how we should behave and it is unlikely that these superbeings would be interested in our day to day behaviour. Sort of like a scientist who creates some sort of bug in a jar and then sees them eating each other. What of it? What is he going to do? Probably flush them down the sink as a bad job. Hey, I think I have figured out the flood story. Laugh out load
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01-07-2014, 12:50 PM
RE: Reading through the bible again
(01-07-2014 12:25 PM)Deltabravo Wrote:  My big problem is that I have been reading about Michio Kaku http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyperspace_(book)

I have no idea what he is going on about as he is so far advanced in his thinking. However, he says it is impossible to rule anything out, that anything is possible including other beings who are light years more advanced than us.

Where does that take us in terms of a debate about religion?

But, even if one were to hypothesize about some "creative" force, what the heck has that got to do with how we live from day to day? Nothing. So a super powerful race of beings created life on earth, does that mean I should slap my kid or file a false tax return, or not? How life was created has nothing at all to do with how we should behave and it is unlikely that these superbeings would be interested in our day to day behaviour. Sort of like a scientist who creates some sort of bug in a jar and then sees them eating each other. What of it? What is he going to do? Probably flush them down the sink as a bad job. Hey, I think I have figured out the flood story. Laugh out load

Unsure What?
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01-07-2014, 01:14 PM
RE: Reading through the bible again
(01-07-2014 12:50 PM)MrKrispy601 Wrote:  
(01-07-2014 12:25 PM)Deltabravo Wrote:  My big problem is that I have been reading about Michio Kaku http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyperspace_(book)

I have no idea what he is going on about as he is so far advanced in his thinking. However, he says it is impossible to rule anything out, that anything is possible including other beings who are light years more advanced than us.

Where does that take us in terms of a debate about religion?

But, even if one were to hypothesize about some "creative" force, what the heck has that got to do with how we live from day to day? Nothing. So a super powerful race of beings created life on earth, does that mean I should slap my kid or file a false tax return, or not? How life was created has nothing at all to do with how we should behave and it is unlikely that these superbeings would be interested in our day to day behaviour. Sort of like a scientist who creates some sort of bug in a jar and then sees them eating each other. What of it? What is he going to do? Probably flush them down the sink as a bad job. Hey, I think I have figured out the flood story. Laugh out load

Unsure What?
Doc: Stay on target.
Deltabravo: We're too close!
Doc: Stay on target!
Deltabravo: [shouts] Loosen up!
[he is picked off by the theists ; Doc tries to escape but is fatally winged]
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01-07-2014, 02:08 PM
RE: Reading through the bible again
(01-07-2014 01:14 PM)docskeptic Wrote:  
(01-07-2014 12:50 PM)MrKrispy601 Wrote:  Unsure What?
Doc: Stay on target.
Deltabravo: We're too close!
Doc: Stay on target!
Deltabravo: [shouts] Loosen up!
[he is picked off by the theists ; Doc tries to escape but is fatally winged]

Laugh out load

Atir aissom atir imon
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03-07-2014, 09:56 AM
RE: Reading through the bible again
(01-07-2014 12:50 PM)MrKrispy601 Wrote:  Sort of like a scientist who creates some sort of bug in a jar and then sees them eating each other. What of it? What is he going to do? Probably flush them down the sink as a bad job. Hey, I think I have figured out the flood story. Laugh out load

You have almost figured it out. All you need to add is the the scientist found a few bugs that weren't fighting and didn't flush them away with the rest.

The information in ancient libraries came from real minds of real people. The far more complex information in cells came from the far more intelligent mind of God.
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