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Real debate with fundies
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17-10-2013, 08:56 PM
RE: Real debate with fundies
(17-10-2013 08:49 PM)Hughsie Wrote:  
(17-10-2013 08:25 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  You actually think (or anyone, "not naming any names" you're going to have a rational "civil" conversation, with someone who says :
"False religions need no liberty. Part of our problems stem from the fact that we've convinced ourselves that any man has a right to worship any god he wants. Only the Church has a right to freedom. We may tolerate other religions, but no man has a God-given right to be a Hindu or a Buddhist or a Muslim.".

Good luck with that.
He says ONLY HIS church has the right to freedom. And we're supposed to treat that dangerous insanity with civility ?
Think about it ? How exactly do you think that would play out, on a practical level.

Erm, well out of the two of you one is trying to be civil and present his points calmly, and one is spewing ad hominems left, right, and centre and is acting so calmly they could pass for someone on tripping out on meth.

Care to take a guess which is which?

As usual, you try to fly without doing your homework. Did you read the shit on their forum ? Obviously not. So someone who says humans are not free is being civil?
Are you ill ?

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein (That's a JOKE, ya idiot)
"And you quit footing the bill for these nations that are oil rich - we're paying for some of their *squirmishes* that have been going on for centuries" - Sarah Palin
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17-10-2013, 08:59 PM
RE: Real debate with fundies
(17-10-2013 08:53 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  Then why didn't you write the ENTIRE post in Latin ? Nice try. You used it, because you thought it gave "authority" your nonsense. In fact the Constitution on the Sacred Liturgy, says all languages are of EQUAL value. There is nowhere that says Latin is "the language of the church".

I disagree with that. Even when I studied RE in school with my atheist RE teacher would would often use Latin (I think) phrases for certain things as it was felt that they fit better into sentences. When I submitted essays they would have the odd Latin phrase in them.

I imagine that such happenings could also be common within the Catholic faith.

Best and worst of Ferdinand .....
Best
Ferdinand: We don't really say 'theist' in Alabama. Here, you're either a Christian, or you're from Afghanistan and we fucking hate you.
Worst
Ferdinand: Everyone from British is so, like, fucking retarded.
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17-10-2013, 09:00 PM
RE: Real debate with fundies
(17-10-2013 08:56 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  As usual, you try to fly without doing your homework. Did you read the shit on their forum ? Obviously not. So someone who says humans are not free is being civil?
Are you ill ?

Fail. I was a member there before I posted in this thread. You can check the time on my intro thread there if you don't believe me.

Perhaps you should do your homework? Yes

PS. Thanks for proving my whole "ad hominem" point as well. Thumbsup

Best and worst of Ferdinand .....
Best
Ferdinand: We don't really say 'theist' in Alabama. Here, you're either a Christian, or you're from Afghanistan and we fucking hate you.
Worst
Ferdinand: Everyone from British is so, like, fucking retarded.
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17-10-2013, 09:09 PM
RE: Real debate with fundies
(17-10-2013 08:59 PM)Hughsie Wrote:  
(17-10-2013 08:53 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  Then why didn't you write the ENTIRE post in Latin ? Nice try. You used it, because you thought it gave "authority" your nonsense. In fact the Constitution on the Sacred Liturgy, says all languages are of EQUAL value. There is nowhere that says Latin is "the language of the church".

I disagree with that. Even when I studied RE in school with my atheist RE teacher would would often use Latin (I think) phrases for certain things as it was felt that they fit better into sentences. When I submitted essays they would have the odd Latin phrase in them.

I imagine that such happenings could also be common within the Catholic faith.

What you "imagine" is irrelevant. I know fundie Catholics.
There is absolutely no value added, (except snob appeal), to saying
made in the "image of god", and "imago Dei". They are identical. He did it for a reason.
It adds no nuance. He used it to imply he spoke with "authority" which no one here accepts.

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein (That's a JOKE, ya idiot)
"And you quit footing the bill for these nations that are oil rich - we're paying for some of their *squirmishes* that have been going on for centuries" - Sarah Palin
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17-10-2013, 09:11 PM
RE: Real debate with fundies
(17-10-2013 09:09 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  What you "imagine" is irrelevant. I know fundie Catholics.
There is absolutely no value added, (except snob appeal), to saying
made in the "image of god", and "imago Dei". They are identical. He did it for a reason.
It adds no nuance. He used it for "authority" which no one here accepts.

So my atheist teacher used exactly the same term in the same way because she was being an arsehole fundie? And I then subsequently used it for the same reason?

Somehow I doubt it.

Best and worst of Ferdinand .....
Best
Ferdinand: We don't really say 'theist' in Alabama. Here, you're either a Christian, or you're from Afghanistan and we fucking hate you.
Worst
Ferdinand: Everyone from British is so, like, fucking retarded.
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17-10-2013, 09:14 PM (This post was last modified: 17-10-2013 10:32 PM by Bucky Ball.)
RE: Real debate with fundies
(17-10-2013 09:11 PM)Hughsie Wrote:  
(17-10-2013 09:09 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  What you "imagine" is irrelevant. I know fundie Catholics.
There is absolutely no value added, (except snob appeal), to saying
made in the "image of god", and "imago Dei". They are identical. He did it for a reason.
It adds no nuance. He used it for "authority" which no one here accepts.

So my atheist teacher used exactly the same term in the same way because she was being an arsehole fundie? And I then subsequently used it for the same reason?

Somehow I doubt it.

Don't be ridiculous. Your atheist teacher never used it "in the *same* way". He/she may have used it, I seriously doubt it was "in the same way".
If you are claiming you "used it in the same way", are you admitting you are preaching Catholicism ?
And I never said "arsehole fundie" No wonder you see ad hominems that don't exist.
Who else have you ever lectured on civility ? Any of the trolls ? Nope. You hate my guts because. And we all know why.
If you were there, then why have you added NOTHING to the discussion here ? Have you said ONE word that actually added to this discussion ?

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein (That's a JOKE, ya idiot)
"And you quit footing the bill for these nations that are oil rich - we're paying for some of their *squirmishes* that have been going on for centuries" - Sarah Palin
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17-10-2013, 09:23 PM
RE: Real debate with fundies
(17-10-2013 09:14 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  Don't be ridiculous. Your atheist teacher never used it "in the *same* way". He/she may have used it, I seriously doubt it was "in the same way".
If you are claiming you "used it in the same way", are you admitting you are preaching Catholicism ?
And I never said "arsehole fundie" No wonder you see ad hominems that don't exist.

You said there was no reason to use it except to try and imply authority. If that is the only reason to use it then that must be why my teacher, myself, and my class all used it. If there is another, legitimate reason to use it then perhaps that is why Louis used it.

And I know you never said the words "arsehole fundie". You view of him wasn't exactly implied to be all sunshine and rainbows from your posts though. You've come across as rather hostile.

Best and worst of Ferdinand .....
Best
Ferdinand: We don't really say 'theist' in Alabama. Here, you're either a Christian, or you're from Afghanistan and we fucking hate you.
Worst
Ferdinand: Everyone from British is so, like, fucking retarded.
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17-10-2013, 09:24 PM
RE: Real debate with fundies
(17-10-2013 08:49 PM)Hughsie Wrote:  Erm, well out of the two of you one is trying to be civil and present his points calmly, and one is spewing ad hominems left, right, and centre and is acting so calmly they could pass for someone on tripping out on meth.

Care to take a guess which is which?

You are a sympathetic character but I will kindly have to tell you that those are just insults not "ad hominems". Ad hominem literally means "to the man" and in the context of argumentation is a contraction of Argumentum ad hominem. Argumentum ad hominem is a species of informal logical fallacy in which some irrelevant property of the interlocutor is employed as a premise in an argument. Argumentum ad hominem need not involve any sort of insult, e.g.

P1. Alan is a priest.
P2. Priests don't have good arguments for the existence of god.
C. Alan does not have good arguments for the existence of god.

P1 makes this an Argumentum ad hominem because Alan's priesthood is an irrelevant personal detail with regards to his capacity to argue.

(P2 makes this argument also a hasty generalisation.)

Notice that The Nizkor Project distinguishes between Ad Hominem and mere personal attack. If that should be insufficient to persuade you then then you should know that the words for insult or personal attack in Latin are contumelia, probrum and insultatio (amongst others). An insult uttered in the course of an argument or debate does not magically become an Argumentum ad hominem, it needs to form part of an argument if it is to be treated as such.

I'll demonstrate all of the above here with Bucky Ballsack.
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17-10-2013, 09:24 PM
RE: Real debate with fundies
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17-10-2013, 09:25 PM
RE: Real debate with fundies
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