Reality has arrived in politics concerning muslims!
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17-11-2015, 02:42 PM
Reality has arrived in politics concerning muslims!
The proposals of the socialist French president have shocked the French political landscape since many of them could might aswell be from the far right and some are even more radical than the proposals of the French far right.

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-34849724

More police, more defense, revoking of citizenship for muslim radicals, increased checks on islamists etc.

Finaly reallity seems to have arrived in the minds of at least one segment of the established political left of a European country.

Cuddling with islamists is not tolerance!

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17-11-2015, 02:54 PM
RE: Reality has arrived in politics concerning muslims!
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20-12-2015, 11:01 AM
RE: Reality has arrived in politics concerning muslims!
(17-11-2015 02:42 PM)The Germans are coming Wrote:  reallity seems to have arrived in the minds of at least one segment of the established political left of a European country.

Reality? Here's reality. Name one country that is under attack by Islamic "terrorists" that did not FIRST make an unprovoked attack on an Islamic country in the past few years. You won't be able to name even one. Out of the 200+ countries in the world, the 95% who stay within their borders and use their military purely defensively face zero threat from isis. Previously I lived in Switzerland. It's right next to France. It's a much richer country than France. Switzerland also has a lot of Muslim immigrants and a lot of Swiss hate them and the immigrants suffer bigotry and discrimination, such as the Swiss ban on minarets. So why aren't the muslims attacking Switzerland? Simple, Switzerland's army stays in Switzerland and doesn't attack other countries. Same for Japan, Chile, Panama, etc. None of them have anything to worry about.

Why is France, the UK, the US, etc. all under attack, telling their citizens the threat is so great that they have to give up even their most freedoms, like the ability to, say, have a private conversation without government minders listening in? Simple. Those countries first made unprovoked attacks on muslim countries and the survivors will do anything to seek revenge.

This isn't even controversial. The CIA and the 9/11 have both unequivocally stated that "terrorism" is really retaliation. As Chomsky says, the only difference between terrorism and counter-terrorism is who's doing it.

So, my question is after the Paris attack, why didn't Hollande take a moment to reflect and ask if in hindsight it REALLY was worth it to invade muslim countries and slaughter innocent people, like they did in 2013 in Mali?

You seem to defend the idea of punishing an entire religious group for the bad actions of a few members. But refresh my memory, didn't something similar happen in Germany a few decades ago? Wasn't it true that a bunch of Jews did some pretty nasty stuff that caused a great deal of suffering? Didn't those Jews who controlled central banks print so many Weimar marks that it led to the worst hyperinflation of the 20th century and wiped out all the wealth of Germany's middle class, concentrating it in the hands of a few? And didn't you have a charismatic leader who published a long-winded manifesto and similarly stated that the problem wasn't just a handful of bad actors, but rather endemic to the entire religion/race, and called for collective punishment of the whole group? Can you let us know how that worked out for you guys, so we can decide if it's a good idea to try that same response yet again?

As they say, those who don't learn from history are doomed to repeat it.
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20-12-2015, 11:36 AM (This post was last modified: 20-12-2015 12:05 PM by GirlyMan.)
RE: Reality has arrived in politics concerning muslims!
(20-12-2015 11:01 AM)frankksj Wrote:  
(17-11-2015 02:42 PM)The Germans are coming Wrote:  reallity seems to have arrived in the minds of at least one segment of the established political left of a European country.

Reality? Here's reality. Name one country that is under attack by Islamic "terrorists" that did not FIRST make an unprovoked attack on an Islamic country in the past few years. You won't be able to name even one. Out of the 200+ countries in the world, the 95% who stay within their borders and use their military purely defensively face zero threat from isis. Previously I lived in Switzerland. It's right next to France. It's a much richer country than France. Switzerland also has a lot of Muslim immigrants and a lot of Swiss hate them and the immigrants suffer bigotry and discrimination, such as the Swiss ban on minarets. So why aren't the muslims attacking Switzerland? Simple, Switzerland's army stays in Switzerland and doesn't attack other countries. Same for Japan, Chile, Panama, etc. None of them have anything to worry about.

Why is France, the UK, the US, etc. all under attack, telling their citizens the threat is so great that they have to give up even their most freedoms, like the ability to, say, have a private conversation without government minders listening in? Simple. Those countries first made unprovoked attacks on muslim countries and the survivors will do anything to seek revenge.

This isn't even controversial. The CIA and the 9/11 have both unequivocally stated that "terrorism" is really retaliation. As Chomsky says, the only difference between terrorism and counter-terrorism is who's doing it.

So, my question is after the Paris attack, why didn't Hollande take a moment to reflect and ask if in hindsight it REALLY was worth it to invade muslim countries and slaughter innocent people, like they did in 2013 in Mali?

You seem to defend the idea of punishing an entire religious group for the bad actions of a few members. But refresh my memory, didn't something similar happen in Germany a few decades ago? Wasn't it true that a bunch of Jews did some pretty nasty stuff that caused a great deal of suffering? Didn't those Jews who controlled central banks print so many Weimar marks that it led to the worst hyperinflation of the 20th century and wiped out all the wealth of Germany's middle class, concentrating it in the hands of a few? And didn't you have a charismatic leader who published a long-winded manifesto and similarly stated that the problem wasn't just a handful of bad actors, but rather endemic to the entire religion/race, and called for collective punishment of the whole group? Can you let us know how that worked out for you guys, so we can decide if it's a good idea to try that same response yet again?

As they say, those who don't learn from history are doomed to repeat it.

Goddam Frankie. Way to come back with a blast. Thumbsup

Seriously dude, I'm happy you got your panties unbunched. I did miss you. Blush

You're still full of shit though. Drinking Beverage





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20-12-2015, 11:39 AM
RE: Reality has arrived in politics concerning muslims!
(17-11-2015 02:42 PM)The Germans are coming Wrote:  Cuddling with islamists is not tolerance!

My dear old mum's life was saved by a Sikh, a Jew, and a Syrian Muslim when they replaced her aortic valve with a cows. My stepfather is a Syrian Muslim. We never cuddle. Drinking Beverage

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20-12-2015, 11:46 AM
RE: Reality has arrived in politics concerning muslims!
(20-12-2015 11:01 AM)frankksj Wrote:  
(17-11-2015 02:42 PM)The Germans are coming Wrote:  reallity seems to have arrived in the minds of at least one segment of the established political left of a European country.

Reality? Here's reality. Name one country that is under attack by Islamic "terrorists" that did not FIRST make an unprovoked attack on an Islamic country in the past few years. You won't be able to name even one. Out of the 200+ countries in the world, the 95% who stay within their borders and use their military purely defensively face zero threat from isis. Previously I lived in Switzerland. It's right next to France. It's a much richer country than France. Switzerland also has a lot of Muslim immigrants and a lot of Swiss hate them and the immigrants suffer bigotry and discrimination, such as the Swiss ban on minarets. So why aren't the muslims attacking Switzerland? Simple, Switzerland's army stays in Switzerland and doesn't attack other countries. Same for Japan, Chile, Panama, etc. None of them have anything to worry about.

Why is France, the UK, the US, etc. all under attack, telling their citizens the threat is so great that they have to give up even their most freedoms, like the ability to, say, have a private conversation without government minders listening in? Simple. Those countries first made unprovoked attacks on muslim countries and the survivors will do anything to seek revenge.

This isn't even controversial. The CIA and the 9/11 have both unequivocally stated that "terrorism" is really retaliation. As Chomsky says, the only difference between terrorism and counter-terrorism is who's doing it.

So, my question is after the Paris attack, why didn't Hollande take a moment to reflect and ask if in hindsight it REALLY was worth it to invade muslim countries and slaughter innocent people, like they did in 2013 in Mali?

You seem to defend the idea of punishing an entire religious group for the bad actions of a few members. But refresh my memory, didn't something similar happen in Germany a few decades ago? Wasn't it true that a bunch of Jews did some pretty nasty stuff that caused a great deal of suffering? Didn't those Jews who controlled central banks print so many Weimar marks that it led to the worst hyperinflation of the 20th century and wiped out all the wealth of Germany's middle class, concentrating it in the hands of a few? And didn't you have a charismatic leader who published a long-winded manifesto and similarly stated that the problem wasn't just a handful of bad actors, but rather endemic to the entire religion/race, and called for collective punishment of the whole group? Can you let us know how that worked out for you guys, so we can decide if it's a good idea to try that same response yet again?

As they say, those who don't learn from history are doomed to repeat it.

But two really amazing things: First is that some of us warned of this when Rumsfeld and W and Cheney were gearing up for the regime change and the second is that some still do not realize this. Time to disengage and pull all Western bases out of Muslim countries and issue an apology and maybe even deliver the above 3 named villains for war crimes trials.
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20-12-2015, 03:03 PM
RE: Reality has arrived in politics concerning muslims!
(20-12-2015 11:46 AM)DerFish Wrote:  deliver the above 3 named villains for war crimes trials.

If they were put on trial, the evidence is damning.

Cheney was interviewed in the 90's when he was defending Bush the father's unwillingness to take out Saddam. He explained the sectarian violence that would result and the power vacuum and how religious extremists would take over. So he can't claim ignorance--he KNEW this was going to happen. He only changed his opinion and became the biggest cheerleader of an Iraq invasion once he became CEO of Halliburton--which company his administration conveniently gave no-bid contracts to support the Iraq invasion, worth many, many billions of dollars.

As far as Bush, shortly before the invasion UN weapons inspector Hans Blix had announced that finally they had unfettered access to every facility and even where (literally) looking under the beds of Iraq's nuclear engineers. He asked the US where these manufacturing plants of WMD's were, and the US gave them an address. But after inspecting they concluded the white powder being produced wasn't anthrax, but powdered milk for baby formula, and they weren't hiding anything. Then Bush was interviewed, and his response reveals everything. _IF_ he was actually naive and really believed the intelligence that there were WMD's, then obviously this revelation would have been a wake up call and would have demanded a review to see how the intelligence got it so wrong. But, instead, the milk factory scandal didn't phase Bush at all--even after he was confronted with the cold hard reality that the intelligence was wrong, he just said the weapons inspectors need to get out so the US can start bombing. He obviously didn't really believe that Iraq had a WMD program or posed any threat to the US.

But it's not just the Republicans. Remember, the day before Clinton was due to be impeached for getting a blow job in the oval office, he tried to distract the nation by bombing Iraq. And a previous UN report concluded he already killed 500,000 Iraqi infants with his attacks. Ron Paul gave a press conference and said he was voting for impeachment, but not because of the blow-job nonsense, but because Clinton killed all those innocent people and that they're going to come back and attack in retaliation. Fast forward 2 years to the interview with Bin Ladin after 9/11 and what is his justification for the attack? He referred to this very same killing of Iraqi babies by the Clinton administration and asked why their muslim blood wasn't as valuable as christian blood, and how the west could mercilessly slaughter so many innocent civilians, but then be so outraged when some of the survivors succeed in pulling off a revenge attack.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wZtPzOukjZA
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21-12-2015, 02:30 PM
RE: Reality has arrived in politics concerning muslims!
(20-12-2015 03:03 PM)frankksj Wrote:  Remember, the day before Clinton was due to be impeached for getting a blow job in the oval office, he tried to distract the nation by bombing Iraq. And a previous UN report concluded he already killed 500,000 Iraqi infants with his attacks.

Source that for me please.

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21-12-2015, 04:41 PM (This post was last modified: 21-12-2015 04:45 PM by frankksj.)
RE: Reality has arrived in politics concerning muslims!
(21-12-2015 02:30 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  
(20-12-2015 03:03 PM)frankksj Wrote:  Remember, the day before Clinton was due to be impeached for getting a blow job in the oval office, he tried to distract the nation by bombing Iraq. And a previous UN report concluded he already killed 500,000 Iraqi infants with his attacks.

Source that for me please.

Go the end of the youtube video I posted where Secretary of State Madeleine Albright is interviewed and asked about the UN report. Not only did the Clinton administration not dispute that the figures were accurate, the most damning part is that Albright showed zero remorse, and said "it was worth it". Even your most hardened serial killers generally show some remorse when confronted with their atrocities. But she doesn't so much as say "I'm sorry, we didn't mean to kill all those children", she just says "it was worth it".

So my question to this is, if we treat Muslims lives as worthless, like they're insects and we kill half a million at a time without blinking an eye, how can we expect them to value our lives? Do we really expect that they are going to feel like our christian lives are precious and their own muslim lives are worthless? How can we be so outraged over muslims killing 130 in Paris and 3,000 on 9/11, yet when we kill millions of muslims, nobody bats an eye.

To me, on a level of morality, the islamic terrorists are actually less evil because they only attack people who first kill them. Yes, it's a primitive eye-for-an-eye mentality. But the West is no better. As soon as they killed people in Paris, France immediately responded by launching attacks in muslim grounds. So if the French succumb to eye-for-eye thinking and lash out and kill others when they get killed, how can you think that isis and muslim extremists are somehow going to respond in a more peaceful manner when we kill them? At least in their case, they don't initiate it. They never attack countries that didn't first attack them, and when they attack, it's blood-for-blood revenge. However the West does instigate unprovoked attacks on them.

Remember, the complaint the US had with Iran in the 1950's was that they were too liberal. They were a modern, progressive democracy. Look at the photos of Tehran at that time. No burkhas in site--it looks like New York. And their liberal PM wanted to use their vast oil revenue to fund universal education and health care, they had prestigious universities, an advanced space program, their automotive production was bigger than the UK's. But Standard Oil and BP lobbied US politicians to attack and overthrow a peaceful modern democracy that hadn't been at conflict with anyone in over 200 years (lookup "operation ajax"), and put in place a dictator (the Shaw) who let them take all Iran's oil without paying for it, and lived an opulent life of luxury. And then after this oppression the US wonders why Iran doesn't like them?

p.s. The 500k figure was calculated by calculating the infant mortality rate before Clinton implemented a blockade and prevented delivery of food and medicine vs the rate afterwards. For me the infuriating part is that, while it's true one could dispute the methodology used, the Clinton administration didn't dispute the figures. Albright admits that they killed 500k children. Her only defense is that "it was worth it".
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21-12-2015, 05:10 PM (This post was last modified: 21-12-2015 05:13 PM by GirlyMan.)
RE: Reality has arrived in politics concerning muslims!
(21-12-2015 04:41 PM)frankksj Wrote:  
(21-12-2015 02:30 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  Source that for me please.

Go the end of the youtube video I posted where Secretary of State Madeleine Albright is interviewed and asked about the UN report.

I would like to read the U.N. report for myself. Thank you very much.

(21-12-2015 04:41 PM)frankksj Wrote:  p.s. The 500k figure was calculated by calculating the infant mortality rate before Clinton implemented a blockade and prevented delivery of food and medicine vs the rate afterwards.

But that's not an attack. That's an embargo.

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