Reality has arrived in politics concerning muslims!
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21-12-2015, 07:08 PM
RE: Reality has arrived in politics concerning muslims!
(20-12-2015 11:36 AM)GirlyMan Wrote:  



We tease him a lot cause we got him on the spot
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For those of you who recall the opening montage of Brooklyn they show during the theme song, you will recall at the end they focus on what is supposed to be the high school where the show takes place. The high school they show is a real school in Brooklyn and it's also where my dad went to high school.

That's it. That's all I've got to contribute to this thread. You bring up Welcome Back Kotter and I give you 6 degrees of Gabe Kaplan.

Oh, one more thing: up your nose with a rubber hose.

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21-12-2015, 07:14 PM
RE: Reality has arrived in politics concerning muslims!
(20-12-2015 11:39 AM)GirlyMan Wrote:  
(17-11-2015 02:42 PM)The Germans are coming Wrote:  Cuddling with islamists is not tolerance!

My dear old mum's life was saved by a Sikh, a Jew, and a Syrian Muslim when they.
Sounds like the start of a joke!
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21-12-2015, 07:26 PM
RE: Reality has arrived in politics concerning muslims!
(21-12-2015 07:08 PM)BnW Wrote:  Oh, one more thing: up your nose with a rubber hose.

I have reported you to the proper authorities. Angry




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21-12-2015, 07:32 PM (This post was last modified: 22-12-2015 03:10 AM by Banjo.)
RE: Reality has arrived in politics concerning muslims!
(20-12-2015 11:01 AM)frankksj Wrote:  
(17-11-2015 02:42 PM)The Germans are coming Wrote:  reallity seems to have arrived in the minds of at least one segment of the established political left of a European country.

[quote Banjo]
Answering the below. How far back in history do you wish to go?

Reality? Here's reality. Name one country that is under attack by Islamic "terrorists" that did not FIRST make an unprovoked attack on an Islamic country in the past few years. You won't be able to name even one. Out of the 200+ countries in the world, the 95% who stay within their borders and use their military purely defensively face zero threat from isis. Previously I lived in Switzerland. It's right next to France. It's a much richer country than France. Switzerland also has a lot of Muslim immigrants and a lot of Swiss hate them and the immigrants suffer bigotry and discrimination, such as the Swiss ban on minarets. So why aren't the muslims attacking Switzerland? Simple, Switzerland's army stays in Switzerland and doesn't attack other countries. Same for Japan, Chile, Panama, etc. None of them have anything to worry about.

Why is France, the UK, the US, etc. all under attack, telling their citizens the threat is so great that they have to give up even their most freedoms, like the ability to, say, have a private conversation without government minders listening in? Simple. Those countries first made unprovoked attacks on muslim countries and the survivors will do anything to seek revenge.

This isn't even controversial. The CIA and the 9/11 have both unequivocally stated that "terrorism" is really retaliation. As Chomsky says, the only difference between terrorism and counter-terrorism is who's doing it.

So, my question is after the Paris attack, why didn't Hollande take a moment to reflect and ask if in hindsight it REALLY was worth it to invade muslim countries and slaughter innocent people, like they did in 2013 in Mali?

You seem to defend the idea of punishing an entire religious group for the bad actions of a few members. But refresh my memory, didn't something similar happen in Germany a few decades ago? Wasn't it true that a bunch of Jews did some pretty nasty stuff that caused a great deal of suffering? Didn't those Jews who controlled central banks print so many Weimar marks that it led to the worst hyperinflation of the 20th century and wiped out all the wealth of Germany's middle class, concentrating it in the hands of a few? And didn't you have a charismatic leader who published a long-winded manifesto and similarly stated that the problem wasn't just a handful of bad actors, but rather endemic to the entire religion/race, and called for collective punishment of the whole group? Can you let us know how that worked out for you guys, so we can decide if it's a good idea to try that same response yet again?

As they say, those who don't learn from history are doomed to repeat it.
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21-12-2015, 11:52 PM
RE: Reality has arrived in politics concerning muslims!
(21-12-2015 05:10 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  But that's not an attack. That's an embargo.

Ok, so if I use force to prevent anyone from providing you food, and use armed patrol outside your house to make sure no food can get in to your family, and you have to watch your child die of starvation, and if your wife asks why I would attack your family like that, would you still defend my actions and say "it's not an attack, it's an embargo"? I mean, seriously, you're defending killing half a million children??

Besides that, in addition to starving the 500k children with the embargo, Clinton did also send bombs to blow their little bodies to bits. Even though as Ron Paul pointed out in the conference, Iraq never threatened the US and didn't even have a functional military anyway.

Anyway, you want to know why so many in the Arab world hate Americans and are willing to sacrifice their lives to kill Americans? It's because they see how Americans justify and excuse and defend the killing of millions of innocent Arabs, as you just did. We're talking about killing millions of innocent people, and you're defending it. So how can you be outraged when a few innocent Americans get killed? Isn't the golden rule the universal standard of morality, and if the US can kill millions of Arabs, isn't that effectively conceding that it's ok when they in turn kill Americans? And think about all the non-religious mass shootings in the US, like Sandy Hook. Should it come as a surprise considering that US society taught Adam Lanza that the appropriate response to people who are different from you is to kill them?

Did you read poll where Americans were asked if the US should bomb Agrabah, the fictional country from Disney's Aladdin, and about 1 in 4 Americans said 'yes'. Think about that. It means tens of millions of Americans support the idea of killing purely for sport people you don't know and who aren't in any way threatening you.

Fortunately I left the US a long time ago, and live in a much happier place where, when we meet exotic people from far away distant lands, instead of pulling out a gun and killing them, we invite them to coffee and exchange stories. And therefore I sleep well at night knowing that because we never attack anyone, nobody wants to attack us and we can live in peace.
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22-12-2015, 04:54 AM
RE: Reality has arrived in politics concerning muslims!
The Iraq embargo specifically did not include food, though.

I get what you're saying and I agree with your basic point, but facts actually do matter. If you want to be taken seriously, you are best served by leaving out the hyperbole. The US did not unilaterally push an embargo on Iraq. It was the UN. And, a lot of Arab, and muslim countries in general, signed off on it. That's a fact.

Oh, and like literally billions of people agree with me on this.

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22-12-2015, 06:11 AM (This post was last modified: 22-12-2015 07:32 AM by Eva.)
RE: Reality has arrived in politics concerning muslims!
(20-12-2015 11:01 AM)frankksj Wrote:  
(17-11-2015 02:42 PM)The Germans are coming Wrote:  reallity seems to have arrived in the minds of at least one segment of the established political left of a European country.
You seem to defend the idea of punishing an entire religious group for the bad actions of a few members. But refresh my memory, didn't something similar happen in Germany a few decades ago? Wasn't it true that a bunch of Jews did some pretty nasty stuff that caused a great deal of suffering? Didn't those Jews who controlled central banks print so many Weimar marks that it led to the worst hyperinflation of the 20th century and wiped out all the wealth of Germany's middle class, concentrating it in the hands of a few? And didn't you have a charismatic leader who published a long-winded manifesto and similarly stated that the problem wasn't just a handful of bad actors, but rather endemic to the entire religion/race, and called for collective punishment of the whole group? Can you let us know how that worked out for you guys, so we can decide if it's a good idea to try that same response yet again?

As they say, those who don't learn from history are doomed to repeat it.

I don't think anyone of sound mind is advocating punishing an entire religious group so the comparison with the Jews back in the day is not an accurate one. Muslims should accept democracy and abide by the same rules. Equal rights for men and women, ONE court system, respect for other ethnic, religious and sex groups, no hate speeches, no public displays of their religious beliefs. Same as everyone else no exceptions. If they're OK with it all is cool. If not, then they are free to go and live in a country that fits their view of how life should be.

With reference to this article Part terrorist, Part Gangster Chomsky's reasoning would equate to claiming that the mafia has a legitimate right to kill cops because they seek to put an end to their operations. But Chomsky made a well paid career out this kind of thinking so I'm sure he'll continue.

While the west has things to answer for the fact is a large part of the middle east mess is tribal with sunni's against shites and this sectarian violence will continue independent of what the west may or may not do.

And just for added interest here's another article. Take note the of the absence of Indonesia in this 'coalition on terror' even though it has a huge muslim population is also a democracy so not a favourite choice of your average dictator or despot.

Saudi's Phoney war on Terror

"The person who is certain, and who claims divine warrant for his certainty, belongs now to the infancy of our species." - Christopher Hitchens

"Remember kids, if you don't sin, then Jesus died for nothing. Have a great day!" - Ricky Gervais
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22-12-2015, 07:19 AM
RE: Reality has arrived in politics concerning muslims!
(20-12-2015 11:01 AM)frankksj Wrote:  
(17-11-2015 02:42 PM)The Germans are coming Wrote:  reallity seems to have arrived in the minds of at least one segment of the established political left of a European country.

So why aren't the muslims attacking Switzerland? Simple, Switzerland's army stays in Switzerland and doesn't attack other countries. Same for Japan, Chile, Panama, etc. None of them have anything to worry about.

That's not entirely accurate, the Swiss have already captured a variety of terrorist cells operating within their borders.

"An an intelligence report completed in May, the Swiss Federal Police reversed previous assessments that the domestic risk of terrorism was nearly nonexistent. The report concluded that Switzerland had become "a jihadi field of operation" and predicted that terrorist attacks were "an increasing possibility."

"It would be dishonest to say that these groups are ready to act in Europe but that Switzerland is an island and that these groups could not be active in Switzerland, too," Jean-Luc Vez, director of the federal police, said in an interview here in the Swiss capital. "It is very, very important for us to say this to the Swiss politicians and the Swiss people."

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/con...01795.html

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22-12-2015, 07:51 AM
RE: Reality has arrived in politics concerning muslims!
(22-12-2015 04:54 AM)BnW Wrote:  The US did not unilaterally push an embargo on Iraq. It was the UN. And, a lot of Arab, and muslim countries in general, signed off on it. That's a fact.

I disagree. The CIA gave acting lessons to the daughter of the Kuwaiti ambassador to help her appear convincing when she gave blatantly false testimony before Congress, pretending to work in a hospital in Kuwait and claiming Iraqis soldiers were pulling baby's out of incubators and leaving them to die. Hill & Knowlton turned this into a gripping emotional advertising campaign to drum up support for the actions against Iraq. And the President used this propaganda to drum up support for actions against Iraq.

The US was itching for war and putting pressure on other countries to go along with it. And after pushing through UN SC resolution 661, it was the US who was enforcing the resolution militarily, intercepting ships going to Iraq. And remember when Bush 2 pushed for the invasion of Iraq again in 2003, he claimed he was enforcing the UN resolution, but even the UN was against it, and the US invaded anyway.

Yes, other countries signed off on it. But it's clear the US was the sponsor and using every tool at its disposal to pressure allies to go along with it. If the US had simply minded its own business and not got involved and not funded false propaganda to stir up emotions, then nobody else would have gotten involved. The US was the leader.

(22-12-2015 04:54 AM)BnW Wrote:  The Iraq embargo specifically did not include food, though.

From wikipedia:

Quote:Persons wishing to deliver items to Iraq, whether in trade or for charitable donation, were required to apply for export licenses to the authorities of one or more UN member state, who then sent the application to the Sanctions Committee. The Committee made its decision in secret; any Committee member could veto a permission without giving any reason.

First, tractors and other thing needed to grow food domestically were banned, so Iraq couldn't grow their own food. And they couldn't trade with other nations to pay for food. And if another country wanted to ship food anyway, the US military was patrolling the waters around Iraq and intercepting all ships and impounding them. So the bottom line is that even though the security resolution allowed for food, the sanctions still prevented Iraq from having food.

The bottom line is the same. The US was behind a blockade that prevented Iraqi parents from being able to feed their children and this led to widespread poverty and scores of deaths. Yes, I know most Americans agree with you in defending this, but that's why America is under attack. Peaceful countries that keep their military at home for defense don't have these problems. They don't have to worry about terrorist attacks, and they don't have give up their liberty and privacy for the sake of security. So my question is "Why does the US do it? Who benefits?" Surely the people don't benefit. During Bush 2's invasion Americans were arguing it was justified because they needed oil. But, the total cost of the ongoing conflict in Iraq is estimated to total around $75,000 per American household--enough to buy every family a new Tesla Model S and eliminate America's dependence on oil and drive the cost of the technology so low that electric could overtake gas globally. I know for Americans the idea of killing a bunch of Arabs sounds pretty cool, but isn't doing 0-60 in 2.8 seconds pretty cool too? Wouldn't that money have been better spent at home, rather than giving it to the military industrial complex to destroy a region on the other side of the planet?

IMO, the war mongers just play the American people like puppets, riling them up and tricking them into sacrificing their quality of life to pursue endless wars.
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22-12-2015, 07:57 AM
RE: Reality has arrived in politics concerning muslims!
(22-12-2015 06:11 AM)Eva Wrote:  I don't think anyone of sound mind is advocating punishing an entire religious group

Between 30 and 50% of the American public advocates banning muslims from entering. source

It's exactly the same as what happened in Germany before WWII. A handful of bad actors within a religious group did some nasty stuff, and a charismatic blow-hard running for executive office riled up the public to drum up support for punishment of the entire religious group.
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