Really, really pissed at the Salvation Army right now
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19-02-2014, 05:10 PM
Really, really pissed at the Salvation Army right now
Long story but someone I care about deeply is really struggling at the moment. In fact he has been for the last 13 years since some seething sack of shit tried to murder him in his bed when he was a kid.

After getting paroled from his joke of a prison sentence the bloody Sallies take him under their wing and tell him he is redeemed and singing some happy clappy shit on the weekends will make him a different person. Does it? No. He then goes on to break into a woman's house and try and stab her and her 3 year old child. Luckily they escaped, but only just.

So then the Sallies, unwilling to admit their bullshit doesn't make a damn bit of fucking difference in changing malevolent child murdering predators stand in court and tell the judge how wonderful their church is and the work they are doing with this guy and he get 200 hours of community work. 200 hours for trying to kill a mother and her child. I have no doubt their involvement played a large part in his outrageously lenient sentence. Religious affiliations should play no part in the justice system.

I really want to get in my car and drive the 4 hours to their church and stand in front of them and tell them their BS doesn't work. The guy needs meaningful and intensive help or he will kill someone. Their approach is not only totally ineffective it is outright dangerous. How can you tell someone that clearly has a mind for murdering people that some imaginary dude from 2000 years ago has forgiven you your sins? All it does is take all personal responsibility for their actions away.

Sorry this is a bit ranty. I know some people in this church. They are nice enough but absolutely deluded. They should stick to handing out cups of tea at natural disasters rather than this bloody carry on. They get a metric fuckton of funding from the government so of course thy aren't going to jeopardize that by going "Yeah. What we do doesn't work, but if we can just get a bit more then maybe it will."

Just knowing this guy is out there going about his life when everyday I have to look into the eyes of one of the most wonderful young men you could hope to meet and see how damaged he is and what this person has done to him absolutely breaks my heart and makes me so angry.
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19-02-2014, 05:32 PM
RE: Really, really pissed at the Salvation Army right now
I'm confused, for a couple of reasons...

1. Could you re-read the start of your post, please. I think you are telling us about two people in your first paragraph (the person you care about and their attacker) but in the second paragraph, the 'he' seems to be referring to the former.
Are you saying that victim of the attack developed into a violent person, was imprisoned and released and is not getting the care they need? Or are you referring to the attacker?

2. Are you in the US? If so, how are they getting government funding? Doesn't that violate the church/state separation thing over there?

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19-02-2014, 05:57 PM (This post was last modified: 19-02-2014 06:25 PM by Pippen.)
RE: Really, really pissed at the Salvation Army right now
(19-02-2014 05:32 PM)DLJ Wrote:  I'm confused, for a couple of reasons...

1. Could you re-read the start of your post, please. I think you are telling us about two people in your first paragraph (the person you care about and their attacker) but in the second paragraph, the 'he' seems to be referring to the former.
Are you saying that victim of the attack developed into a violent person, was imprisoned and released and is not getting the care they need? Or are you referring to the attacker?

2. Are you in the US? If so, how are they getting government funding? Doesn't that violate the church/state separation thing over there?

Sorry. It was unclear. My friend was the one who was attacked in his bed. The guy who did it is the one who then went on to try and kill the mother and child after he got out of prison for the attack on my friend.

They operate under charity status here in NZ and run various programs for addiction and social services. Which is fine in itself but they do it on a faith based system. Generally the funding comes from the Ministry of Health who allocate money to local health boards and then each year various organisations apply for funding from the pool. These include hospices, homes for special needs kids, anti violence programs, all sorts of things. The Sallies have their finger in all sorts of pies and they have a fairly broad reach. No one really sees them as a church here, more as a social agency. They even have to put ads on TV saying "Hey we are a church as well"

A lot of it is run under the guise of Trusts so most people don't understand that the organisation they are dealing with is actually a religious outfit with their own agenda rather than a government funded initiative.

The path this guy would have taken was part of his parole conditions would be to attend an alcohol and drug treatment plan. This would be run by the Salvation Army as they would be the only one available to him where he lives now. Once they have their hooks in it doesn't take much to lure them to the church side of it. The guy is damaged to hell. He has had a bloody horrible life. Prison wouldn't have helped him and handing him over to a bunch of deluded religious fools who only want to see the best in people and not deal with his underlying malignancy is just so wrong.
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19-02-2014, 06:20 PM
RE: Really, really pissed at the Salvation Army right now
Thanks for the clarification.

I forgot you lived in NZ, sorry.

To qualify for selection under the MoH funds allocation scheme, there would be some selection criteria.

One would think that the selection criteria would include auditable methodologies, processes and accreditation for the health-care workers themselves.

I think you might have the grounds to challenge the Army's performance against these criteria.

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19-02-2014, 06:50 PM
RE: Really, really pissed at the Salvation Army right now
(19-02-2014 06:20 PM)DLJ Wrote:  Thanks for the clarification.

I forgot you lived in NZ, sorry.

To qualify for selection under the MoH funds allocation scheme, there would be some selection criteria.

One would think that the selection criteria would include auditable methodologies, processes and accreditation for the health-care workers themselves.

I think you might have the grounds to challenge the Army's performance against these criteria.

They have protocols in place but they know how to work the system to maintain their funding. A young guy who used to work for me was court mandated to attend an anti violence program as part of his parole conditions. If he didn't do it it was back to prison. He went for the initial assessment and never heard back from them. Police issue him with a breach of parole and send him back to court for sentencing. He came to me for help and I rang the agency and asked what the hell they were playing at. Turns out they had decided to not accept him on the program as they didn't think he would pass it. They didn't tell him that. It was the first he had heard of it. Basically they cherry pick the people they think will pass and discard the rest. It they drop below a certain performance standard they lose their funding.

By not letting him on the course they were effectively sending him back to prison even though he was doing everything that was asked of him and he was doing his very best to meet the conditions. Thankfully the defense lawyer saw through this BS and got the prosecution to drop the case and admit that they had ballsed it up.

They are funded to provide a service and they have conditions on the funding, but they can construct their service delivery in anyway they see fit. It's a total farce.

Another organisation I know of operates what is essentially a life skills course for low socio economic teenage mothers. Doesn't teach them basic literacy or budgeting or self development. It teaches them how to iron and do the dishes and other such 'womanly' skills. Run by a church disguised as a trust. Funded by my taxes.
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20-02-2014, 02:05 AM
RE: Really, really pissed at the Salvation Army right now
You talk about driving four hours to confront them, well if you do, you could effectively guilt trip them. It won't work to go up there and tell them they are all deluded by believing in a sky fairy, but you could tell them that the next time this person ruins someone else's life or puts and end to it that it will be their fault. They will have to go to bed every night thinking that someone else did the same and was attacked / murdered because they stopped the authorities from dealing properly with the man.

As you know, even if the attack fails just knowing that you were attacked whilst vulnerable can cause great psychological harm. Make them realise quite what this psychological harm is like.

Religious people want to feel good about making the world a better place. You'd be making them feel extremely uncomfortable about their actions. Just don't admit to being an atheist so they can dismiss you. And if they ask then tell them that it is not relevant.
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