Reasons for a Bible full of holes?
Post Reply
 
Thread Rating:
  • 0 Votes - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
14-08-2014, 02:21 PM
RE: Reasons for a Bible full of holes?
(13-08-2014 11:54 PM)morondog Wrote:  
(13-08-2014 05:22 PM)fluffycat Wrote:  Anyway experiences such as these give pause to discount that there is not something else involved with the human element. Not sure what brings someone to pray myself included. The other 2 times I prayed was when I was young. My cat was accidentally killed in front of me by my sister and I wanted it reincarnated. The other time was for someone who rode our school bus and was burned in an explosion and later died.

... This one - you realise that if God could save them post explosion he could have done it pre-explosion too?

I recognize that you've had some pretty amazing experiences in your life. I don't think there's anything supernatural about it though. Stuff like your sister's survival - modern medicine while very good doesn't know everything there is to know about the human body. I'm not advocating for alternative medicine, just sometimes these kind medical miracles do happen - it's a miracle due more to our imperfect knowledge (in my ever so humble opinion) than to supernatural intervention.

Now if my cat would have showed up alive behind the barn that would have qualified as one. I like to support my wife (she is very active) by going to Church with her, but I,m sure I would be labeled the Devil's advocate if I ever stayed after Church to attend Adult Bible School and actually put forth some questions that I have. I see the Church doing good things to help people. Just finding it more uncomfortable to attend.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
14-08-2014, 02:24 PM
RE: Reasons for a Bible full of holes?
Why is this in the "Melee" forum, btw?

[Image: dog-shaking.gif]
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
14-08-2014, 02:35 PM
RE: Reasons for a Bible full of holes?
(14-08-2014 02:24 PM)kingschosen Wrote:  Why is this in the "Melee" forum, btw?

So that if we feel like slapping you weirdo Christees round the chops we're not contravening any local by-laws... obviously.


Tongue

We'll love you just the way you are
If you're perfect -- Alanis Morissette
(06-02-2014 03:47 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  And I'm giving myself a conclusion again from all the facepalming.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
14-08-2014, 02:36 PM
RE: Reasons for a Bible full of holes?
(14-08-2014 02:21 PM)fluffycat Wrote:  I see the Church doing good things to help people. Just finding it more uncomfortable to attend.

Seconded on both points. Can't stand the mumbling, fully support the community stuff.

We'll love you just the way you are
If you're perfect -- Alanis Morissette
(06-02-2014 03:47 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  And I'm giving myself a conclusion again from all the facepalming.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
14-08-2014, 02:58 PM
RE: Reasons for a Bible full of holes?
Quote:Don’t even some of the books in the Old Testament contradict this?


Do they? Or do they simply present the views of the priestly class whining about the excesses of various kings? Once all the "Davidic Empire and Solomon" shit is dismissed for the fairy tales that they are we are left with a state of Judah which existed as independent kingdom for only short spans of time in the entire first millennium BC. It was not until the late second century BC that an actual "jewish" kingdom arose under the Hasmoneans and which became a minor regional power... at least until it collapsed in a paroxysm of dynastic squabbling until the Romans under Gnaeus Pompey came along and put it out of its misery in 63 BC.

As for the NT, what primarily comes out of that is the admonition to believers to STFU, do what they are told, obey everyone in authority...especially the fucking church.... and they'll get their "reward" in the next life. Meanwhile, the fuckers who wrote the damn thing were cleaning up on earth.

Sounds to me like exactly what power structures have always demanded.

Atheism is NOT a Religion. It's A Personal Relationship With Reality!
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
14-08-2014, 03:03 PM
RE: Reasons for a Bible full of holes?
You take a group of superstitious uneducated theists, a bagful of old greek myths, a shitty editor who couldn't keep the lies straight, and add a huge heaping spoonful of pseudepigrapha and VOILA! you have the bible. Apparently they are yummy too!

[Image: whiirr.jpg]

and the flock has their priorities in the right order...

[Image: bjfzis.jpg]

"Belief is so often the death of reason" - Qyburn, Game of Thrones

"The Christian community continues to exist because the conclusions of the critical study of the Bible are largely withheld from them." -Hans Conzelmann (1915-1989)
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 2 users Like goodwithoutgod's post
14-08-2014, 03:46 PM
RE: Reasons for a Bible full of holes?
(14-08-2014 10:35 AM)Michael Colton Wrote:  The Bible is full of holes largely because it was bits and pieces written by a variety of people and then combined. That, almost literally, creates holes.

And as for the prayer question, I have not prayed since becoming an atheist.

You pretty much cut to the core. I was thinking more in manner where some would argue that it is a perfect document of the written word of God with no fallacies and is to be taken literal. Whereas I would question that it couldn’t be as such because we need the imperfections. We need to work out what is moral and true on our own.

More so, that we are tried and challenged by what is written in the Bible. Perhaps somehow if we have doubts it can be beneficial and it might lead us into doing the right and moral thing. Perhaps if Atheism is a reaction rejecting genocide or stoning people or other actions as we see as immoral in the Bible, one should feel okay. Shouldn’t we challenge the accounts of child sacrifice as it relates to Abraham?

Understanding this, if we really look at what Jesus says there are hints that he was overturning a lot of what was in the Old Testament. How could we not have doubts today if we are of an educated mind? The thing I don’t like about so many organized religions is that they seem to be exclusionary and dogmatic. My thinking is this maybe drives people away from hope. Perhaps having a perfect written rule or guidebook would lead us to no escape from perpetual evil if we went ahead and made some very wrong actions in our lives. One might say that Thomas was an Atheist. He perhaps followed Jesus only because he was doing good for people. Being of a practical mind he knew that it wasn’t going to end well however. Only seeing was believing in his case. I myself have never had an “On the Road to Damascus” experience.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
14-08-2014, 04:31 PM
RE: Reasons for a Bible full of holes?
(14-08-2014 03:46 PM)fluffycat Wrote:  
(14-08-2014 10:35 AM)Michael Colton Wrote:  The Bible is full of holes largely because it was bits and pieces written by a variety of people and then combined. That, almost literally, creates holes.

And as for the prayer question, I have not prayed since becoming an atheist.

You pretty much cut to the core. I was thinking more in manner where some would argue that it is a perfect document of the written word of God with no fallacies and is to be taken literal. Whereas I would question that it couldn’t be as such because we need the imperfections. We need to work out what is moral and true on our own.

More so, that we are tried and challenged by what is written in the Bible. Perhaps somehow if we have doubts it can be beneficial and it might lead us into doing the right and moral thing. Perhaps if Atheism is a reaction rejecting genocide or stoning people or other actions as we see as immoral in the Bible, one should feel okay. Shouldn’t we challenge the accounts of child sacrifice as it relates to Abraham?

Understanding this, if we really look at what Jesus says there are hints that he was overturning a lot of what was in the Old Testament. How could we not have doubts today if we are of an educated mind? The thing I don’t like about so many organized religions is that they seem to be exclusionary and dogmatic. My thinking is this maybe drives people away from hope. Perhaps having a perfect written rule or guidebook would lead us to no escape from perpetual evil if we went ahead and made some very wrong actions in our lives. One might say that Thomas was an Atheist. He perhaps followed Jesus only because he was doing good for people. Being of a practical mind he knew that it wasn’t going to end well however. Only seeing was believing in his case. I myself have never had an “On the Road to Damascus” experience.

The Bible is neither the only or the best source of questions to ponder.

And the story of Abraham and Isaac is simply barbaric and obscene.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
[Image: flagstiny%206.gif]
Visit this user's website Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
14-08-2014, 04:34 PM
RE: Reasons for a Bible full of holes?
(14-08-2014 02:58 PM)Minimalist Wrote:  
Quote:Don’t even some of the books in the Old Testament contradict this?


Do they? Or do they simply present the views of the priestly class whining about the excesses of various kings? Once all the "Davidic Empire and Solomon" shit is dismissed for the fairy tales that they are we are left with a state of Judah which existed as independent kingdom for only short spans of time in the entire first millennium BC. It was not until the late second century BC that an actual "jewish" kingdom arose under the Hasmoneans and which became a minor regional power... at least until it collapsed in a paroxysm of dynastic squabbling until the Romans under Gnaeus Pompey came along and put it out of its misery in 63 BC.

As for the NT, what primarily comes out of that is the admonition to believers to STFU, do what they are told, obey everyone in authority...especially the fucking church.... and they'll get their "reward" in the next life. Meanwhile, the fuckers who wrote the damn thing were cleaning up on earth.

Sounds to me like exactly what power structures have always demanded.

You might have me there. It did seem there was at least a few lines mentioned for a call to provide justice to the poor. It’s been awhile since I last went and read through all of the Bible. Do you believe the NT itself a curse in regard to becoming a boilerplate for abuse of power? It does seem it was manipulated into becoming that way but I don’t see it ever as being intentionally composed for this reason. Fair to say lots of evil things done by rulers in the name of God. It might have been an even harsher world without its influence on Western Civilization.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
14-08-2014, 05:02 PM
RE: Reasons for a Bible full of holes?
(14-08-2014 02:36 PM)morondog Wrote:  
(14-08-2014 02:21 PM)fluffycat Wrote:  I see the Church doing good things to help people. Just finding it more uncomfortable to attend.

Seconded on both points. Can't stand the mumbling, fully support the community stuff.

Also want to cringe if I hear certain phrases such as "God's Chosen People" or listen to a Children's Sermon with mention of Noah's Ark.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
Post Reply
Forum Jump: