Rebuttal to aethist questions
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24-09-2012, 05:54 PM
RE: Rebuttal to aethist questions
I fail to see how hanging could in any way be described as falling headlong.

One is this:
[Image: hw_pratfall_c.jpg]

The other is this:
[Image: heathledger_hanging1.jpg]

E 2 = (mc 2)2 + (pc )2
614C → 714N + e + ̅νe
2 K(s) + 2 H2O(l) → 2 KOH(aq) + H2 (g) + 196 kJ/mol
It works, bitches.
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24-09-2012, 05:55 PM
RE: Rebuttal to aethist questions
Guess who..... Wink

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24-09-2012, 06:00 PM
RE: Rebuttal to aethist questions
(24-09-2012 05:55 PM)Stark Raving Wrote:  Guess who..... Wink

Oooh not played this game in years.

Do they have a beard?

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24-09-2012, 06:09 PM
RE: Rebuttal to aethist questions
(24-09-2012 05:53 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  Numbers 12:3 Now Moses was a very humble man, more humble than anyone else on the face of the earth.

I am not going to prove a fucking thing, asshole. The fact that you have not even heard of the Documentary Hypothesis, while I have provided a number of correct academic resources, and proofs, and you have been incorrect, in at least 1/2 of the crap you posted, leads me to believe that your education is sorely lacking.

My parents live in the ranch my grandparents built in Northern San Diego County, which is my permanent home, in Hope Ranch. I attend Harvard during the summer and and I live neither in Cambridge nor San Diego, during the school year. I live in Bel-Air California with my brother, as I attend Caltech in Pasadena, in Eastern Los Angeles, during the year.

The fact is the Elohim were discovered, in the Royal Library of Ashurbanipal archaeological discovery in mid Nineteenth Century, as the Council of Gods. Yahweh was on of their 70 sons. "Some circles" is bullshit. Everyone knows that's where Yahweh and the Elohim concept came from. The "trinity" was, (despite being claimed by Christians), TOTALLY UNKNOWN to these people. Obviously you have ONLY a FUNDAMENTALIST exposure to the Bible, and know NO real church history. That's unfortunate. As my other thread shows, fundies know nothing about what is really discussed in mainline classrooms. The "trinity" was developed as a concept, not fully until Augustine got a hold of it, and Aquinas tried to explain it. The Council of Nicaea, and many others FOUGHT like cats and dogs about what it was, and what it meant. It did not exist in the OLD Testament, no matter what you have been told. It would have been considered idolatry, and we KNOW that the concept of Yahweh and his consort Ashura, did NOT involve that concept, EVER, at ANY time.

The name Javeh, was not "given" to Moses. In the myths from the Southern traditions, the Edomite mountain god, Javeh, and the Egyptian volcano god were conflated, and stuck together with Yahweh, and declared by Judean priests to be the same. Javeh and Yahweh were not the same, and had developed separately.

The fact that you have never heard of the Documentary Hypothesis, (and the writing by Judean priests), only betrays your total ignorange. I will waste no more time on you. You obviously have ONLY fundie knowledge. Go to school. Get an education. If you do not believe me, go, right now, to Barnes and Noble, and get Dr. Friedman's books. He agrees with absolutely every thing I have said. Or go to your library and start reading the 125 fundamentalist department chairmen, scholars, teachers, and famous archaeologists, who write The Interpreters Bible. Everything I have said is right there.


hmm guess i missed that verse, man i really searched for that one lol

but the statement is not a contradiction, and could be very true, he was at the time the only man who had ever seen god on the mount of olives, the one who saw him in the burning bush, also that is written in parenthesis, might have come from another old testament writer, like Joshua for example, it doesn't dispute that moses is the main author of genesis.

and you make more crap up, Yahweh is LITERALLY a hebrew word let me copy and paste it

OT:3068

Yehovah (yeh-ho-vaw'); from OT:1961; (the) self-Existent or Eternal; Jehovah, Jewish national name of God: also pronounced Yahweh

KJV - Jehovah, the Lord. Compare OT:3050, OT:3069.
(Biblesoft's New Exhaustive Strong's Numbers and Concordance with Expanded Greek-Hebrew Dictionary. Copyright ?1994, 2003 Biblesoft, Inc. and International Bible Translators, Inc.)

also here is elohim an actual hebrew word

'elohiym (el-o-heem'); plural of OT:433; gods in the ordinary sense; but specifically used (in the plural thus, especially with the article) of the supreme God; occasionally applied by way of deference to magistrates; and sometimes as a superlative:


KJV - angels, exceeding, God (gods)- dess, -ly), (very) great, judges, mighty.
(Biblesoft's New Exhaustive Strong's Numbers and Concordance with Expanded Greek-Hebrew Dictionary. Copyright ?1994, 2003 Biblesoft, Inc. and International Bible Translators, Inc.)

the words where the orginal hebrew words for GOD, jehovah being the personal name of God the father told to moses

stop copy and pasting stuff that isn't true or proven man
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24-09-2012, 06:12 PM
RE: Rebuttal to aethist questions
(24-09-2012 05:54 PM)Phaedrus Wrote:  I fail to see how hanging could in any way be described as falling headlong.

One is this:
[Image: hw_pratfall_c.jpg]

The other is this:
[Image: heathledger_hanging1.jpg]



Now this man ... - The money which was given for betraying the Lord Jesus was thrown down in the temple, and the field was purchased with it by the Jewish priests. See Matthew 27:5, Matthew 27:10, and the notes on that place. A man is said often to do a thing when he furnishes means for doing it. Compare Matthew 27:60, "And laid it (the body of Jesus) in his own new tomb, which he had hewn out in the rock." That is, had caused to be hewn out. John 4:1, "when, therefore, the Lord knew how the Pharisees had heard that Jesus "made and baptized" more disciples than John." Through his disciples, for Jesus himself baptized not, John 4:2. The same principle is recognized in law in the well-known maxim, "Qui facit per alium, facit per se."

The reward of iniquity - The price which he had for that deed of stupendous wickedness - the betraying of the Lord Jesus.

And falling headlong - The word here rendered "headlong" - πρηνής prēnēs (Latin "pronus," whence our English word "prone") - means properly "bent forward, head-foremost"; and the idea is, that his position in hanging himself was such that when the cord broke he fell headlong, or fell forward on his face. This can easily be supposed if he threw himself from a rock or elevated place. He first hanged himself, and then fell and was burst asunder. See the notes on Matthew 27:5.
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24-09-2012, 06:13 PM
RE: Rebuttal to aethist questions
Jknight,

Stop reporting posts as "derogatory". In fact, do not reports posts at all.

Consider yourself lucky I haven't already booted your ass for sock puppetry.

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24-09-2012, 06:19 PM
RE: Rebuttal to aethist questions
(24-09-2012 06:12 PM)Jknight316 Wrote:  
(24-09-2012 05:54 PM)Phaedrus Wrote:  I fail to see how hanging could in any way be described as falling headlong.

One is this:
[Image: hw_pratfall_c.jpg]

The other is this:
[Image: heathledger_hanging1.jpg]



Now this man ... - The money which was given for betraying the Lord Jesus was thrown down in the temple, and the field was purchased with it by the Jewish priests. See Matthew 27:5, Matthew 27:10, and the notes on that place. A man is said often to do a thing when he furnishes means for doing it. Compare Matthew 27:60, "And laid it (the body of Jesus) in his own new tomb, which he had hewn out in the rock." That is, had caused to be hewn out. John 4:1, "when, therefore, the Lord knew how the Pharisees had heard that Jesus "made and baptized" more disciples than John." Through his disciples, for Jesus himself baptized not, John 4:2. The same principle is recognized in law in the well-known maxim, "Qui facit per alium, facit per se."

The reward of iniquity - The price which he had for that deed of stupendous wickedness - the betraying of the Lord Jesus.

And falling headlong - The word here rendered "headlong" - πρηνής prēnēs (Latin "pronus," whence our English word "prone") - means properly "bent forward, head-foremost"; and the idea is, that his position in hanging himself was such that when the cord broke he fell headlong, or fell forward on his face. This can easily be supposed if he threw himself from a rock or elevated place. He first hanged himself, and then fell and was burst asunder. See the notes on Matthew 27:5.

Talk about copy/paste. You're just repeating yourself now, and have not addressed my concerns. Logical contradiction beside (for instance, did he spend the money or throw it down?) it's a clear literary contradiction. If I encountered that in a work of fiction (like the Bible) I would consider it a contradiction or plot hole.

E 2 = (mc 2)2 + (pc )2
614C → 714N + e + ̅νe
2 K(s) + 2 H2O(l) → 2 KOH(aq) + H2 (g) + 196 kJ/mol
It works, bitches.
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24-09-2012, 06:23 PM
RE: Rebuttal to aethist questions
(24-09-2012 06:09 PM)Jknight316 Wrote:  hmm guess i missed that verse, man i really searched for that one lol

but the statement is not a contradiction, and could be very true, he was at the time the only man who had ever seen god on the mount of olives, the one who saw him in the burning bush, also that is written in parenthesis, might have come from another old testament writer, like Joshua for example, it doesn't dispute that moses is the main author of genesis.

and you make more crap up, Yahweh is LITERALLY a hebrew word let me copy and paste it

OT:3068

Yehovah (yeh-ho-vaw'); from OT:1961; (the) self-Existent or Eternal; Jehovah, Jewish national name of God: also pronounced Yahweh

KJV - Jehovah, the Lord. Compare OT:3050, OT:3069.
(Biblesoft's New Exhaustive Strong's Numbers and Concordance with Expanded Greek-Hebrew Dictionary. Copyright ?1994, 2003 Biblesoft, Inc. and International Bible Translators, Inc.)

also here is elohim an actual hebrew word

'elohiym (el-o-heem'); plural of OT:433; gods in the ordinary sense; but specifically used (in the plural thus, especially with the article) of the supreme God; occasionally applied by way of deference to magistrates; and sometimes as a superlative:


KJV - angels, exceeding, God (gods)- dess, -ly), (very) great, judges, mighty.
(Biblesoft's New Exhaustive Strong's Numbers and Concordance with Expanded Greek-Hebrew Dictionary. Copyright ?1994, 2003 Biblesoft, Inc. and International Bible Translators, Inc.)

the words where the orginal hebrew words for GOD, jehovah being the personal name of God the father told to moses

stop copy and pasting stuff that isn't true or proven man

So that means that the fact Zeus was Greek name, makes him real.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/En%C3%BBma_Eli%C5%A1

http://www.biblicalheritage.org/bible%20...n-gods.htm

Archaeology has proven camels were not domesticated until 1000 BCE. That makes it all a hoax.

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24-09-2012, 06:26 PM
RE: Rebuttal to aethist questions
(24-09-2012 06:19 PM)Phaedrus Wrote:  
(24-09-2012 06:12 PM)Jknight316 Wrote:  Now this man ... - The money which was given for betraying the Lord Jesus was thrown down in the temple, and the field was purchased with it by the Jewish priests. See Matthew 27:5, Matthew 27:10, and the notes on that place. A man is said often to do a thing when he furnishes means for doing it. Compare Matthew 27:60, "And laid it (the body of Jesus) in his own new tomb, which he had hewn out in the rock." That is, had caused to be hewn out. John 4:1, "when, therefore, the Lord knew how the Pharisees had heard that Jesus "made and baptized" more disciples than John." Through his disciples, for Jesus himself baptized not, John 4:2. The same principle is recognized in law in the well-known maxim, "Qui facit per alium, facit per se."

The reward of iniquity - The price which he had for that deed of stupendous wickedness - the betraying of the Lord Jesus.

And falling headlong - The word here rendered "headlong" - πρηνής prēnēs (Latin "pronus," whence our English word "prone") - means properly "bent forward, head-foremost"; and the idea is, that his position in hanging himself was such that when the cord broke he fell headlong, or fell forward on his face. This can easily be supposed if he threw himself from a rock or elevated place. He first hanged himself, and then fell and was burst asunder. See the notes on Matthew 27:5.

Talk about copy/paste. You're just repeating yourself now, and have not addressed my concerns. Logical contradiction beside (for instance, did he spend the money or throw it down?) it's a clear literary contradiction. If I encountered that in a work of fiction (like the Bible) I would consider it a contradiction or plot hole.
you force me to make this simple for you


By hanging (Matthew 27:3-8) - "Then when Judas, who had betrayed Him, saw that He had been condemned, he felt remorse and returned the thirty pieces of silver to the chief priests and elders, 4saying, "I have sinned by betraying innocent blood." But they said, "What is that to us? See to that yourself!" 5And he threw the pieces of silver into the sanctuary and departed; and he went away and hanged himself. 6And the chief priests took the pieces of silver and said, "It is not lawful to put them into the temple treasury, since it is the price of blood." 7And they counseled together and with the money bought the Potter’s Field as a burial place for strangers. 8For this reason that field has been called the Field of Blood to this day."
By falling (Acts 1:16-19) - "Brethren, the Scripture had to be fulfilled, which the Holy Spirit foretold by the mouth of David concerning Judas, who became a guide to those who arrested Jesus. 17"For he was counted among us, and received his portion in this ministry." 18(Now this man acquired a field with the price of his wickedness; and falling headlong, he burst open in the middle and all his bowels gushed out. 19And it became known to all who were living in Jerusalem; so that in their own language that field was called Hakeldama, that is, Field of Blood.)"

the second verse is simply explaining that a field was named after him by the price of his wickedness, he commuted suicide because of guilt of betraying Jesus

no where does it say he bought anything with the money, it says the priest bought a different field and barried the dead in it, maybe that was the field he hung himself in, not sure, but either way he threw his money in the temple, went to a field and hung himself from either a ledge cliff or tree, upon doing so the cord broke and he fell head long, the Greek work means prone, as for his guts bursting out, either he fell a great distance, or like i said, maggots ate out his insides and his guts burst out, either way this describes the same thing happening to him by two different people, it is by the law of contradiction, not a contradiction.
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24-09-2012, 06:28 PM
RE: Rebuttal to aethist questions
(24-09-2012 06:23 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  
(24-09-2012 06:09 PM)Jknight316 Wrote:  hmm guess i missed that verse, man i really searched for that one lol

but the statement is not a contradiction, and could be very true, he was at the time the only man who had ever seen god on the mount of olives, the one who saw him in the burning bush, also that is written in parenthesis, might have come from another old testament writer, like Joshua for example, it doesn't dispute that moses is the main author of genesis.

and you make more crap up, Yahweh is LITERALLY a hebrew word let me copy and paste it

OT:3068

Yehovah (yeh-ho-vaw'); from OT:1961; (the) self-Existent or Eternal; Jehovah, Jewish national name of God: also pronounced Yahweh

KJV - Jehovah, the Lord. Compare OT:3050, OT:3069.
(Biblesoft's New Exhaustive Strong's Numbers and Concordance with Expanded Greek-Hebrew Dictionary. Copyright ?1994, 2003 Biblesoft, Inc. and International Bible Translators, Inc.)

also here is elohim an actual hebrew word

'elohiym (el-o-heem'); plural of OT:433; gods in the ordinary sense; but specifically used (in the plural thus, especially with the article) of the supreme God; occasionally applied by way of deference to magistrates; and sometimes as a superlative:


KJV - angels, exceeding, God (gods)- dess, -ly), (very) great, judges, mighty.
(Biblesoft's New Exhaustive Strong's Numbers and Concordance with Expanded Greek-Hebrew Dictionary. Copyright ?1994, 2003 Biblesoft, Inc. and International Bible Translators, Inc.)

the words where the orginal hebrew words for GOD, jehovah being the personal name of God the father told to moses

stop copy and pasting stuff that isn't true or proven man

So that means that the fact Zeus was Greek name, makes him real.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/En%C3%BBma_Eli%C5%A1

http://www.biblicalheritage.org/bible%20...n-gods.htm

Archaeology has proven camels were not domesticated until 1000 BCE. That makes it all a hoax.

man you must be trolling me, and i will forever wonder how you got into harvard

i simply said the words Elohim and Yahweh orginated in hebrew and didnt come from any other language, which is what i think you were trying to say, that they got the ideas from another source, which complete bs because those words are both ancient hebrew and only found in the hebrew language.
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