Rebutting the Concept of a "Fine Tuned" Earth - Take Two
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28-12-2014, 12:04 PM
RE: Rebutting the Concept of a "Fine Tuned" Earth - Take Two
No one said it was going to be easy. You have to have your fallacies in order to combat the nutbars, for when they say mysterious ways, you say special pleading. It's a process. But the Iron Chariots refutation of the argument is the best by far, to me.

Check out my now-defunct atheism blog. It's just a blog, no ads, no revenue, no gods.
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28-12-2014, 12:17 PM (This post was last modified: 28-12-2014 12:30 PM by gofish!.)
RE: Rebutting the Concept of a "Fine Tuned" Earth - Take Two
(28-12-2014 12:04 PM)WillHopp Wrote:  No one said it was going to be easy. You have to have your fallacies in order to combat the nutbars, for when they say mysterious ways, you say special pleading. It's a process. But the Iron Chariots refutation of the argument is the best by far, to me.

Smile

Seriously, though, I do consider it a logical fallacy to assume you can "reason" with someone in the deepest depths of childhood conditioning and subsequent adult reinforcement. Sometimes a moment of clarity comes to them, but if they're not already ready for the debate, firing all logical phasers and photon torpedoes very often makes the monster stronger.

In some cases, one might find oneself dealing with something more sinister: religious conditioning combined with deep anti-social behaviour disorder, in which case you maybe dealing with something many psychiatrists consider untreatable.

I really do honestly believe that some form of cognitive behavioural therapy is a more logical approach, as much as we'd like to believe otherwise.

That's why I don't engage rationally with committed fundies, because once you know you're dealing with conditioning, stronger tools than logic are required. At best, sometimes I can leave them with a zinger that gets through, but until such time as I choose to develop therapy skills, that is a battle I leave to others.

However, happy to be shown the folly of my ways...that's why I'm here. Smile

"I don't mind being wrong...it's a time I get to learn something new..."
Me.
N.B: I routinely make edits to posts to correct grammar or spelling, or to restate a point more clearly. I only notify edits if they materially change meaning.
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28-12-2014, 12:29 PM
RE: Rebutting the Concept of a "Fine Tuned" Earth - Take Two
(28-12-2014 12:17 PM)gofish! Wrote:  
(28-12-2014 12:04 PM)WillHopp Wrote:  No one said it was going to be easy. You have to have your fallacies in order to combat the nutbars, for when they say mysterious ways, you say special pleading. It's a process. But the Iron Chariots refutation of the argument is the best by far, to me.
LOL.

Seriously, though, I do consider it a logical fallacy to assume you can "reason" with someone in the deepest depths of childhood conditioning and subsequent adult reinforcement. Sometimes a moment of clarity comes to them, but if they're not already ready for the debate, firing all logical phasers and photon torpedoes very often makes the monster stronger.

according to AntiCitizenX all this teleological nonsense is something natural for kids


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28-12-2014, 12:34 PM
RE: Rebutting the Concept of a "Fine Tuned" Earth - Take Two
I was indoctrinated as a young child and fed the woo. But places like TTA, shows like AXP and books such as The God Delusion were enough to convert the doubt into full-blown deconversion. I agree that taking on fundies is futile, but if a crack forms then rational thought has a chance. In my case, I wasn't much of a religious person, I just sort of accepted what I was told and kept it in the back of my mind. But when man-made rules altered the religion in front of my eyes! and religious relatives thought everything fortunate thing was a miracle, I chose to rationally look at it. That's when I found out it was all bullshit. So, have those real fallacies ready, because you never know when you'll make that dent in their faith.

Check out my now-defunct atheism blog. It's just a blog, no ads, no revenue, no gods.
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