Reconciling old and new testaments
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26-02-2015, 12:20 PM
RE: Reconciling old and new testaments
(25-02-2015 06:40 PM)Happy Wrote:  I know this question was probably asked a million times, but I honestly do not understand how people who believe, truly and honestly, can reconcile the god of old and new testaments.
My mum, who is a devout christian, keeps telling me that there's a certain way of reading the bible and I'm doing it wrong. I've been an atheist for a long time, and the first time I read the bible was when I started doubting religion. I read it as any other book, from the beginning to the end. But I honestly don't understand, what difference would it make which chapter I read first. I read a lot of articles on the topic and they all just trail off into usual rationalising, that it's the same god, but the only way to know him is through jesus, but yeah, it's still the same god, but only through Jesus you will truly understand the love of god, but all of the books are still valid, but only Jesus…. You got the point. It does not make sense to me.
There are some horrible horrible things in the bible, I won't even go to all the stuff you have to do to a rape victim or your slaves. What disturbed me the most is Hosea 13:16 "Samaria shall become desolate; for she hath rebelled against her God: they shall fall by the sword: their infants shall be dashed in pieces, and their women with child shall be ripped up." I just had a baby girl, she's 6 months, she's the most precious and beautiful thing in my world. And seeing the world from a different perspective, as a mother, these lines are just making me sick. I keep imaging my baby being "dashed in pieces" or myself being "ripped up" while pregnant with her. How, how can you believe in this kind of god? How can you believe this book? How can you talk about god of Love?
Can someone please explain it to me? How can you pick and chose what you like and just ignore the unpleasant stuff? It's in the book you consider sacred.

They cant. They cherry pick and move the goal posts, but they cant in reality.

The bible as a plot from beginning to end is horrible. It's lead character is a immovable character who was not elected to his position, cannot be removed from his position, and does not need human consent to rule over humans. You only have a brief attempt at kindness with the NT, but the end times throws all non believers into the trash can even if their only crime is picking the wrong club.

It really is no different than an abusive spouse.

1. Part one......I beat you for your own good.
2. Part two. I'm sorry I beat you, forget about the past, I won't beat you again"
3. Part three. Goes back to beating you.

That is merely the moral aspect of it. The scientific absurdity in genesis alone is enough to reject it. But it is not a moral book at all.

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26-02-2015, 12:33 PM
RE: Reconciling old and new testaments
(26-02-2015 11:59 AM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  I don't pick and choose and I don't ignore. It's my atheist friends at TTA who cherry pick and constantly complain about the same verses. They never want to discuss the love of Jesus, the wisdom of Proverbs, the joy of life, the glories of Creation, etc.

We don't gloss over those. We constantly bring up NT verses about the horrors of hell, the nonsensical nature of salvation, and how this interacts with concepts like free will or heaven. It's not like we only discuss Deuteronomy 22, or something.


(26-02-2015 11:59 AM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  Sorry but I live in a world of Christians where we talk always about the hard and soft parts of the Bible.

I came from a world where the Christians glossed over those things. Different people have different experiences.


(26-02-2015 12:00 PM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  100 million Americans have cognitive dissonance? I guess we inmates run your asylum. Good luck with that. Drinking Beverage

All that proves is a lot of people believe the same nonfalsifiable thing. A lot of others believe in other nonfalsifiable things. I'm not sure why you think an argument from popularity would be compelling.
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26-02-2015, 12:42 PM
RE: Reconciling old and new testaments
(26-02-2015 11:59 AM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  I don't pick and choose and I don't ignore. It's my atheist friends at TTA who cherry pick and constantly complain about the same verses. They never want to discuss the love of Jesus, the wisdom of Proverbs, the joy of life, the glories of Creation, etc.

Sorry but I live in a world of Christians where we talk always about the hard and soft parts of the Bible.

Oh but you do choose to ignore, or in many cases rationalize by leaving your morals and ethics at the door. Would you ignore any killings, torture or suffering ordered from your father or mother? A teacher or mentor? A friend or close relative? Your babysitter or kids soccer coach? NO you would not ignore that, but this loving god and your mental condition are a different story. Jackass.

“Truth does not demand belief. Scientists do not join hands every Sunday, singing, yes, gravity is real! I will have faith! I will be strong! I believe in my heart that what goes up, up, up, must come down, down, down. Amen! If they did, we would think they were pretty insecure about it.”
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26-02-2015, 01:21 PM
RE: Reconciling old and new testaments
(26-02-2015 12:42 PM)Timber1025 Wrote:  
(26-02-2015 11:59 AM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  I don't pick and choose and I don't ignore. It's my atheist friends at TTA who cherry pick and constantly complain about the same verses. They never want to discuss the love of Jesus, the wisdom of Proverbs, the joy of life, the glories of Creation, etc.

Sorry but I live in a world of Christians where we talk always about the hard and soft parts of the Bible.

Oh but you do choose to ignore, or in many cases rationalize by leaving your morals and ethics at the door. Would you ignore any killings, torture or suffering ordered from your father or mother? A teacher or mentor? A friend or close relative? Your babysitter or kids soccer coach? NO you would not ignore that, but this loving god and your mental condition are a different story. Jackass.

Exactly, they do choose. If you went verse by verse and did everything this god commanded you to do, you would have no choice but to become a monster. They do not seem to understand that their empathy is not in that book, but their evolutionary empathy allows them to ignore the nasty parts. The west became civil in spite of Christianity, not because of it.

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26-02-2015, 10:40 PM
RE: Reconciling old and new testaments
Standard answers. Progressive revelation: redemptive plan through jesus was only partially revealed to OT prophets. Protection of Isreal: yahweh must deal harshly with the hebrews and their enemies in order to protect the nation and the family lineage from which jesus will be born. Prophetic fulfillment: all of the ritual, laws and animal sacrifice in the OT point to the ultimate sacrifice of jesus, who fulfills OT law for NT christians who instead rely on grace for salvation.

It's an impressive display of pretzel twisting and selection bias.
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27-02-2015, 11:10 AM
RE: Reconciling old and new testaments
(26-02-2015 12:12 PM)Timber1025 Wrote:  
(26-02-2015 12:00 PM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  100 million Americans have cognitive dissonance?

I guess so, but admitting you have this condition is the first step to recovery. Every year many do see the light and add to the growing atheist population.

I "liked" this post because I think it is winsome and clever. Touché! Well said.

I'm told atheists on forums like TTA are bitter and angry. If you are not, your posts to me will be respectful, insightful and thoughtful. Prove me wrong by your adherence to decent behavior.
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27-02-2015, 11:13 AM
RE: Reconciling old and new testaments
(26-02-2015 12:33 PM)RobbyPants Wrote:  
(26-02-2015 11:59 AM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  I don't pick and choose and I don't ignore. It's my atheist friends at TTA who cherry pick and constantly complain about the same verses. They never want to discuss the love of Jesus, the wisdom of Proverbs, the joy of life, the glories of Creation, etc.

We don't gloss over those. We constantly bring up NT verses about the horrors of hell, the nonsensical nature of salvation, and how this interacts with concepts like free will or heaven. It's not like we only discuss Deuteronomy 22, or something.


(26-02-2015 11:59 AM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  Sorry but I live in a world of Christians where we talk always about the hard and soft parts of the Bible.

I came from a world where the Christians glossed over those things. Different people have different experiences.


(26-02-2015 12:00 PM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  100 million Americans have cognitive dissonance? I guess we inmates run your asylum. Good luck with that. Drinking Beverage

All that proves is a lot of people believe the same nonfalsifiable thing. A lot of others believe in other nonfalsifiable things. I'm not sure why you think an argument from popularity would be compelling.

1. In the months I've been here, and The Q have been watching, I've mostly stuck to the Atheism and Theism forums. I've seen umpteen Bible potshots that were that--single verses taken out of context. I can't recall even one thread, "What is good and decent in the Bible?" or "People talk about the love of Jesus. Is that a believable concept?" -- okay, maybe there's one post. Big deal.

2. Mine is less an argument from popularity than a call to hearken TTA toward reality. "Most humans need to eat and sleep on a regular basis to live." More power to you if you can do without either, brother.

I'm told atheists on forums like TTA are bitter and angry. If you are not, your posts to me will be respectful, insightful and thoughtful. Prove me wrong by your adherence to decent behavior.
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27-02-2015, 11:16 AM
RE: Reconciling old and new testaments
(26-02-2015 07:24 AM)onlinebiker Wrote:  The quickest, cleanest and surprisingly easiest way to reconcile the new and old testaments?????

Toss the piece of shit in the rubbish, and be done with it.

Problem solved.


Don't trash the whole book just because it's bullshit. I keep one for emergency toilet paper.

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27-02-2015, 11:36 AM
RE: Reconciling old and new testaments
(27-02-2015 11:13 AM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  1. In the months I've been here, and The Q have been watching, I've mostly stuck to the Atheism and Theism forums. I've seen umpteen Bible potshots that were that--single verses taken out of context. I can't recall even one thread, "What is good and decent in the Bible?" or "People talk about the love of Jesus. Is that a believable concept?" -- okay, maybe there's one post. Big deal.

Why would we start those threads? I don't see any Christian groups talking about the benefits of atheism.


(27-02-2015 11:13 AM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  2. Mine is less an argument from popularity than a call to hearken TTA toward reality. "Most humans need to eat and sleep on a regular basis to live." More power to you if you can do without either, brother.

Most humans believe in nonfalsifiable things. When have any of us asserted any differently?
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27-02-2015, 12:09 PM
Reconciling old and new testaments
I liked Robby's post for the first half mostly. I'm not sure why any non-Christian would bother discussing the good parts of the Bible.

If you had a neighbor who constantly burned your yard, killed your pets, cursed you, and said it was your fault, would you stop and say, "At least he's consistent. Oh, and he's got such pretty eyes."
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