Recovering Jehovahs Witness
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28-03-2013, 01:10 AM
RE: Recovering Jehovahs Witness
The problem with JW's is that if you give them even the slightest hint that you're interested in what they have to say; they will only push harder. There is no neutrality with them. They intend to bring you into their fold. It's what they do. If you nibble at the bait, they're going to try to sink the hook.

I'm afraid you either have to put your foot down and run the risks; or bullshit your way through ever-increasing visits from the elders.

- Former JW

Through profound pain comes profound knowledge.
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28-03-2013, 04:36 AM
RE: Recovering Jehovahs Witness
Very valid point Misanthropik. I was guilted into coming to the memorial this week. I was working until 8pm and my mom was watching the kids. They had a double memorial at her hall, one at 7ish and one at 9ish. So she took the kids to the 9ish. My kids called me saying they missed me and how they wanted me to go. Of course I caved and met them. I didn't even bother changing though. Just went in my work uniform. Actually, I'm kinda glad I did go so I could be reminded of what it is and how much bullshit they preach. Unfortunately though, now that I was there the elders will hound me more. I think instead of lying to them I will just make excuses for now as to why I can't meet them or as long as possible. I'm a busy guy! I know at some point I will have to put my foot down though...you're absolutely right...when I do, will they push harder and pit my family against me? Probably...
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28-03-2013, 10:47 AM
RE: Recovering Jehovahs Witness
(28-03-2013 04:36 AM)Magillx3 Wrote:  Very valid point Misanthropik. I was guilted into coming to the memorial this week. I was working until 8pm and my mom was watching the kids. They had a double memorial at her hall, one at 7ish and one at 9ish. So she took the kids to the 9ish. My kids called me saying they missed me and how they wanted me to go. Of course I caved and met them. I didn't even bother changing though. Just went in my work uniform. Actually, I'm kinda glad I did go so I could be reminded of what it is and how much bullshit they preach. Unfortunately though, now that I was there the elders will hound me more. I think instead of lying to them I will just make excuses for now as to why I can't meet them or as long as possible. I'm a busy guy! I know at some point I will have to put my foot down though...you're absolutely right...when I do, will they push harder and pit my family against me? Probably...

Well, I can really only speak from my own personal experience; which means that your results may vary. My family are devout Witnesses, and are fully aware that I'm what they would call an "apostate". By doctrinal rules, they shouldn't even speak to me. But they do. We socialize; they summon my assistance for various family matters; even my grandmother (the most devout among them) allows me to sit in her kitchen and chat with her if I happen to drop by. (In fairness, I think they may be under some impression that I'm just going through a phase and will soon come back to the fold)

There are of course Witnesses who will reject non-believing family members, and that can be incredibly difficult. I obviously can't gauge what type of family you have, so I have no way of predicting how they'll react. Your next move is entirely up to you, and what you think will be best for them and for yourself.

Through profound pain comes profound knowledge.
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08-07-2013, 01:15 AM
RE: Recovering Jehovahs Witness
I know this thread hasn't had much attention in a while, but JWs have a doctrine that's not talked about very much anymore called Theocratic War Strategy. Basically what it means is that you are not required to divulge truthful information to someone who isn't entitled to it. Are the Elders really entitled to know your personal business? I don't think so. Their so-called authority only extends as far as you permit it. You can bet your bottom dollar that they will lie their faces off to protect the WTS or themselves, so just give them exactly what they deserve: nothing.

. . . all the gods were stories we told the children to make them behave. ~ Thoros of Myr (Game of Thrones, Episode 3:06)
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08-07-2013, 08:46 AM
RE: Recovering Jehovahs Witness
Based on what I'm reading, you have control over your kids and are not risking your relationship with them over this issue. You're already divorced, so you're in hot water with the Watchtower Society anyway.

The WTS is one of the two cults in my screen name, so I have some experience with them, though it's not the same as yours. Take my advice with a grain of salt, coming from someone who doesn't know you and couldn't possibly give informed advice that's perfectly suited to your situation.

That said, it's time to stand up to these bullies and to the death-grip they have on the people you love. It's time to tell them they can't have you, they can't have your kids, and you will not be pushed around by them anymore. Not one day more. If your other family members love this organization more than they love you, be prepared to say goodbye. Remember, they're the ones disrespecting YOU, not vice versa. Make new friends and make new "family." Get to know your neighbors. Get involved in a cause that actually helps people. Show your kids that you won't be ordered around by theocratic bullies and that they don't have to be either.

You let your family know that you will always love them and that your door will always be open to them. If there's no contact, that's their choice. They are the ones who've talked themselves into this nonsense. They do NOT get to dictate the terms of your relationship with them. If they don't respect you, they don't get the privilege of your fellowship and they don't get the privilege of your children.

I just lost contact with a cousin of mine because he values his theism above our relationship. I have no regrets in this regard, and I told him so. Anyone who puts their faith in the Bible over their love for family... DOESN'T LOVE FAMILY, and your kids are better off without their attention, which ALWAYS comes with a hidden agenda to control their futures by turning your kids into the same mindless pawns they sing beside twice or three times a week.

Stop letting these creeps push you around. Your kids deserve better.

Again, don't know you, and don't know how practical this advice is for you. Based on what you wrote alone, this is what I would do if I were in your shoes.
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08-07-2013, 09:01 AM
RE: Recovering Jehovahs Witness
I agree with the others...only you can decide if the risks are worth it.

I don't quite understand the situation with your wife (ex?) and children (in one house? shared custody?) but I would make the necessary arrangements in regards to them, BEFORE showing your cards.

If you need a new sitter, a new school, a network of friends to help, find them now-move your kids to their care and get them settled first. Get all of the needed arrangements in place BEFORE the fallout. Because when shit hits the fan- you will need to have these things in order right away.


Be excellent to each other and party on, Dudes!
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08-07-2013, 09:22 AM
RE: Recovering Jehovahs Witness
Scully hit the nail on the head. I haven't heard the term "Theocratic War Strategy" ever before, but the description fits.

And I bet the Elders are very familiar with it.

You gotta treat this like a court proceeding. The Elders always take notes when in conversation with a member or non-member, and will use anything any everything against you if it fits their agenda.

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08-07-2013, 09:56 AM
RE: Recovering Jehovahs Witness
(08-07-2013 09:22 AM)cheapthrillseaker Wrote:  Scully hit the nail on the head. I haven't heard the term "Theocratic War Strategy" ever before, but the description fits.

And I bet the Elders are very familiar with it.

You gotta treat this like a court proceeding. The Elders always take notes when in conversation with a member or non-member, and will use anything any everything against you if it fits their agenda.

I was waiting for you to comment on here. ;D

(22-03-2013 09:29 PM)Magillx3 Wrote:  I'm new here to the forum so take this as my intro as well.

Although my family is all JW. I've managed to stay away from the JW debates/discussions/whatever for a few years now. Over the last few weeks my brother in law has been asking to come over with one of the "elders" to talk. Now, I'm ok with religious discussion. I actually welcome hearing other people's ideas and opinions. With the JWs it's a bit different. If I were to "come out" my family would be obligated to stay away from me. No talking. No time for tea. No nothing. I'm hoping to just avoid this visit altogether but anyone that knows the JWs, knows that's not really going to happen. I guess I need suggestions on how to approach this while appearing neutral? I'm open to hear any ideas. i was hoping someone here has gone through something similar so we can connect.

I should also mention I am a single father with three kids (9, 6 & 4)...so family is huge for me.

Don't reply with aggressive hostility toward their convictions. Explain your thought process and reasoning for your irreligion if it comes up. Those are the only tips I can give you. Ultimately, the choice is up to them.

I hope it goes well, man.

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08-07-2013, 10:16 AM
RE: Recovering Jehovahs Witness
(08-07-2013 09:56 AM)My little DJ in training Wrote:  I was waiting for you to comment on here. ;D

Awwww thanks, LH. Tongue

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08-07-2013, 10:52 AM
RE: Recovering Jehovahs Witness
TwoCultSurvivor wrote: " Remember, they're the ones disrespecting YOU, not vice versa. "

Bingo. My experience with JWs was quite different. Growing up, my best friend was one and his family was very devout. I remember that we had to do a bible study before we could go out and play. I would go with them to the KH sometimes and I also bought a NWT. Anyway, I remember being invited to a circus by my friend. It apparently was a JW only youth outing. I remember the adult ripping my friend for inviting and "outsider". It was an example of how they seek to isolate/control those within the so-called "circle".

During my Fundie years I worked with several JWs. Two of which were elders and one was not. I began to debate my friend who was not. "Bill" kept close tabs on "John" during our discussions. It got to the point to where "John" was no longer allowed to speak to me. I remember the day when I approached him and just struck up an ordinary conversation and he never responded. He continued to ignore me and I could see "Bill" on another line watching us. All I could say was, "Really? Does Bill have that kind of control over you? You are an adult and he controls who you speak to?" I just left it at that. It was nearly 6 months and after "Bill" retired that he began talking to me again.

The way this group isolates and controls its members is close to criminal in my opinion.

"Now I don't want to be sane either, but I'm just saying there may be other delusions and hallucinations worthy of consideration before jumping to an irrational conclusion, that's all."
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