Red heifer
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11-05-2016, 09:22 PM
RE: Red heifer
(11-05-2016 09:03 PM)Fatbaldhobbit Wrote:  
(11-05-2016 08:37 PM)Aliza Wrote:  Why does the Bible's authenticity have to be proven? It either is real, or it is not real. What difference would it make in your life if it's real? .... What difference should it make in my life if it's not real?

It is not a question of the bible itself. Conservative christians in the US are using that book to make laws and force their viewpoints on everyone else. Their justification is that it is the infallible, inerrant word of god.

Since that is not the case, the Fundamentalists have no justification for their illegal and immoral actions.

I agree. It's call separation of church and state. Let's practice it. But that's not a Jewish problem or a theist problem. That's a Christian problem.

(11-05-2016 09:03 PM)Fatbaldhobbit Wrote:  It is my understanding that the Jewish religion teaches that the way to god is through the bible. (Please correct me if I am wrong.)

That is not correct.... Well, I guess it depends on what you mean by "through the bible." The Jewish religion teaches exclusively to Jews, and tells Jews that the proper way for us to live our lives is to not eat pigs or murder people (among other things).

(11-05-2016 09:03 PM)Fatbaldhobbit Wrote:  If the bible is not true then that would leave you with a set of customs and restrictions that are valuable only as cultural traditions.

Is that lifestyle is acceptable to you?

Yes, that would be fine. I like my lifestyle. If I didn't, I'd stop doing it, and I'd stop doing it without any fear of "going to hell."

I find gentile culture to be a perfectly valid way of living one's life, but it doesn't appeal to me anymore than my culture probably appeals to you.
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11-05-2016, 09:23 PM
RE: Red heifer
(11-05-2016 08:14 PM)Aliza Wrote:  
(11-05-2016 07:39 PM)SitaSky Wrote:  That's a good point but fact is Yahweh supposedly told someone to write this stuff down and it was supposed to happen no matter what but it's not happening, so then some of his followers take it upon themselves to make it happen but it's still not quite right and now we have wars going on over it and many innocents are dying so why isn't this big guy stepping in to help his people? Because he doesn't exist...but I do remember reading that Israel would live in peace because everyone would know the Jews were his chosen people and they would respect that but how are we all supposed to know that? Unless he tells us? He's certainly not helping the situation...because he doesn't exist.

Jewish thought teaches that the whole point is figuring out how to do it ourselves. The bible tells a story of a G-d who is increasingly taking a step backwards and letting humanity plot their own course.

Relying on G-d to do things for you is the exact opposite of what Judaism teaches.

Tired of these rampant diseases? Let's make cures and vaccines.
Want to end hunger? Go develop GMOs and create a plan to get food to everyone.
Need to educate the entire world at once? Invent Google!
Tired of natural disasters? Let’s figure out how to control the weather.

According to what I was taught in Jewish studies, humanity can have absolutely everything and anything that we can fathom and are willing to work toward. Maybe some theists want to sit around and pray for everything and expect G-d to just hand them whatever they ask for, but that’s not how it works and it doesn’t say anywhere that that’s how it works. That’s not a theism problem. It’s an idiocy problem.

If we want a red heifer, we’re going to get one one way or another, and how we get it doesn’t negate that it was accomplished fair and square.

And for whatever it’s worth, if Christians want to pay my way to Israel, they’re welcome to do that. I’ll take their money. Smile

When I was a Christian I was taught differently. I'm sure you know this. We are taught to depend on God one service and the next they are telling us to do for ourselves. There's verses that go with each, I can't remember exactly but the "knock and the door will be opened" and the "ask and you shall receive" then something about we can do for ourselves. And you say idiocy but to whom does that refer? When your like me and you are taught that this religion is right from birth, you're scared into believing, you're taught that to question is wrong and it means you're back sliding and there's punishment for it.. I don't think it's idiotic when you have no idea there's other things going on in the world.
Love you Aliza, I'm not being mean.
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11-05-2016, 09:29 PM
RE: Red heifer
(11-05-2016 09:23 PM)Jewelarcher Wrote:  And you say idiocy but to whom does that refer? When your like me and you are taught that this religion is right from birth, you're scared into believing, you're taught that to question is wrong and it means you're back sliding and there's punishment for it.. I don't think it's idiotic when you have no idea there's other things going on in the world.

You're absolutely right. There are people who are in this from birth and the system is set up to keep people there, subdued and quiet. How much culpability can you really put on group of people who are literally taught not to think for themselves or challenge authority?
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11-05-2016, 09:36 PM
RE: Red heifer
(11-05-2016 09:29 PM)Aliza Wrote:  
(11-05-2016 09:23 PM)Jewelarcher Wrote:  And you say idiocy but to whom does that refer? When your like me and you are taught that this religion is right from birth, you're scared into believing, you're taught that to question is wrong and it means you're back sliding and there's punishment for it.. I don't think it's idiotic when you have no idea there's other things going on in the world.

You're absolutely right. There are people who are in this from birth and the system is set up to keep people there, subdued and quiet. How much culpability can you really put on group of people who are literally taught not to think for themselves or challenge authority?

I don't think there's enough blame to go around. There's hundreds of people like cosmicraven and I who are terrified of our own beliefs. Luckily we were able to break free from most of it. The things that come with my religion are horrible. Nightmares and being afraid to be yourself. if you fit the perfect mold that's one thing. But no one is perfect except Jesus, but don't you dare step out of line a tiny bit.. If you do you're forgiven but you'll be punished. The scariest thing is the "turn from me I never knew you" part. Where you disappoint Jesus so much he disowns you?? I mean come on these people are literally putting the fear of God in us.
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12-05-2016, 05:24 AM
RE: Red heifer
(11-05-2016 09:08 PM)Aliza Wrote:  In the Gregorian calendar, this means that by sundown, September 30, 2239, if we don’t have the messiah, then Judaism is a load of crap. –I’m sure they’ll be a handful of loyalists who refuse to give up, but if I can figure out how to live that long, I will give up after that date.

Holy crap! Lieutenant Uhura was born in 2239! I think I found your Messiah...

Gods derive their power from post-hoc rationalizations. -The Inquisition

Using the supernatural to explain events in your life is a failure of the intellect to comprehend the world around you. -The Inquisition
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12-05-2016, 05:34 AM
RE: Red heifer
(11-05-2016 09:22 PM)Aliza Wrote:  That is not correct.... Well, I guess it depends on what you mean by "through the bible." The Jewish religion teaches exclusively to Jews, and tells Jews that the proper way for us to live our lives is to not eat pigs or murder people (among other things).

Apologies, I knew I wasn't phrasing that right. What you said was essentially what I was trying to say.

(11-05-2016 09:22 PM)Aliza Wrote:  Yes, that would be fine. I like my lifestyle. If I didn't, I'd stop doing it, and I'd stop doing it without any fear of "going to hell."
That sounds nice. Fear is a bad way to live.

(11-05-2016 09:22 PM)Aliza Wrote:  I find gentile culture to be a perfectly valid way of living one's life, but it doesn't appeal to me anymore than my culture probably appeals to you.
Exactly.

Help for the living. Hope for the dead. ~ R.G. Ingersoll

Freedom offers opportunity. Opportunity confers responsibility. Responsibility to use the freedom we enjoy wisely, honestly and humanely. ~ Noam Chomsky
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12-05-2016, 06:08 AM
RE: Red heifer
(11-05-2016 07:02 PM)TheInquisition Wrote:  Why does a god need a red heifer? Facepalm

Because some people wrote it in a book 2,700 years ago, and if he doesn't get it the book would be wrong!
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12-05-2016, 06:26 AM
RE: Red heifer
Betting that most people don't even know what a heifer is.............

..

(don't cheat and Google it...... Just admit it, city boy...)

Big Grin

.......................................

The difference between prayer and masturbation - is when a guy is through masturbating - he has something to show for his efforts.
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12-05-2016, 06:29 AM
RE: Red heifer
(12-05-2016 06:26 AM)onlinebiker Wrote:  Betting that most people don't even know what a heifer is.............

..

(don't cheat and Google it...... Just admit it, city boy...)

Big Grin

What'd you say about my mama!?

Tongue

Don't let those gnomes and their illusions get you down. They're just gnomes and illusions.

--Jake the Dog, Adventure Time

Alouette, je te plumerai.
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12-05-2016, 06:32 AM
RE: Red heifer
(12-05-2016 06:29 AM)Old Man Marsh Wrote:  
(12-05-2016 06:26 AM)onlinebiker Wrote:  Betting that most people don't even know what a heifer is.............

..

(don't cheat and Google it...... Just admit it, city boy...)

Big Grin

What'd you say about my mama!?

Tongue

There's one ......

Your mama a heifer???

Jesus Christ...

...

Big Grin

.......................................

The difference between prayer and masturbation - is when a guy is through masturbating - he has something to show for his efforts.
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