Redeveloping my worldview
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10-07-2013, 04:41 PM
Redeveloping my worldview
When I first became an atheist, I told myself that despite my lack of belief in a god, I wouldn't give up my "christian values". I still wanted to be a good person, but now I see that my old values were either obvious, or unjust. I am currently in the closet, and all the people I know are christian, so I have nobody to turn to. I have always believed that abortion is wrong, but now I'm not sure, I still dislike the idea of killing the unborn baby, but as the youtuber "the religious antagonist" put it, is masturbation then murder too? I'm 15 years old, and realize now that my political views may need some adjusting as well, my parents are hardcore republican, as well as all (but one) of my friends. This may be in the wrong section but, would someone please inform me on their differences, as unbiased as possible. I understand that that might be difficult, as I have yet to find an unbiased description of either party online. I am told that when the government gives handouts, most people that get the money aren't even trying to support themselves. I am told that Obama is stupid, yet now I see Romney was wearing magic underwear, so I question the intelligence of them both now. If there are any big issues that I might not know about, please let me know, thanks all for reading and look forward to your responses.

PS. Anyone feel free to present your opinion, I would love it if all different opinions were presented, as I have no experience with any but my parents.

Against logic there is no armor like ignorance. -Laurence J. Peter
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10-07-2013, 04:58 PM
RE: Redeveloping my worldview
(10-07-2013 04:41 PM)Derek Hammar Wrote:  When I first became an atheist, I told myself that despite my lack of belief in a god, I wouldn't give up my "christian values". I still wanted to be a good person, but now I see that my old values were either obvious, or unjust. I am currently in the closet, and all the people I know are christian, so I have nobody to turn to. I have always believed that abortion is wrong, but now I'm not sure, I still dislike the idea of killing the unborn baby, but as the youtuber "the religious antagonist" put it, is masturbation then murder too? I'm 15 years old, and realize now that my political views may need some adjusting as well, my parents are hardcore republican, as well as all (but one) of my friends. This may be in the wrong section but, would someone please inform me on their differences, as unbiased as possible. I understand that that might be difficult, as I have yet to find an unbiased description of either party online. I am told that when the government gives handouts, most people that get the money aren't even trying to support themselves. I am told that Obama is stupid, yet now I see Romney was wearing magic underwear, so I question the intelligence of them both now. If there are any big issues that I might not know about, please let me know, thanks all for reading and look forward to your responses.

PS. Anyone feel free to present your opinion, I would love it if all different opinions were presented, as I have no experience with any but my parents.

First off lets get this out of the way, Neither Romney nor Obama were stupid, one graduated with honors from Harvard the other had an Ivy League education and ran several fortune 500 companies. Generally intelligence questions about politicians are merely Ad Hominem attacks from incredulity (How could an intelligent person not agree with my take on the situation)

As to abortion thats a tricky one but the safest position is Pro choice and I can argue it is the better option for actually reducing abortion. The problem here is how much do you need everyone else to live with your morality? I'm for smaller government so I prefer for government to just stay out of the decision altogether so Pro Choice. I also believe that the actual way to reduce abortions is with actual information on condoms and all other forms of birth control dispelling the stupid myths that uninformed teens build up about how pregnancy works (Mt Dew myth anyone?) I can go more in depth as to why this should be the default position but will hold off to see how this discussion unfolds.

(31-07-2014 04:37 PM)Luminon Wrote:  America is full of guns, but they're useless, because nobody has the courage to shoot an IRS agent in self-defense
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10-07-2013, 05:10 PM
RE: Redeveloping my worldview
(10-07-2013 04:41 PM)Derek Hammar Wrote:  When I first became an atheist, I told myself that despite my lack of belief in a god, I wouldn't give up my "christian values". I still wanted to be a good person, but now I see that my old values were either obvious, or unjust. I am currently in the closet, and all the people I know are christian, so I have nobody to turn to. I have always believed that abortion is wrong, but now I'm not sure, I still dislike the idea of killing the unborn baby, but as the youtuber "the religious antagonist" put it, is masturbation then murder too? I'm 15 years old, and realize now that my political views may need some adjusting as well, my parents are hardcore republican, as well as all (but one) of my friends. This may be in the wrong section but, would someone please inform me on their differences, as unbiased as possible. I understand that that might be difficult, as I have yet to find an unbiased description of either party online. I am told that when the government gives handouts, most people that get the money aren't even trying to support themselves. I am told that Obama is stupid, yet now I see Romney was wearing magic underwear, so I question the intelligence of them both now. If there are any big issues that I might not know about, please let me know, thanks all for reading and look forward to your responses.

PS. Anyone feel free to present your opinion, I would love it if all different opinions were presented, as I have no experience with any but my parents.

Haha, abandon all preconceptions before I begin to tell you this. I began debating in this forum when I was not much older than you and, to be honest, I am not much older than you now.

First of all, what is the matter with abortion? Why is preventing an unwanted unborn child a bad thing? Second of all, why would you question Obama's intelligence? The only thing questionable about the man is where his allegiance lies. The issue with Obama, and this is coming from liberal, is that he is not nearly strong enough with his left-leaning views and, instead, continues to cater to the idiotic Republican congressman.

The Republican congress is responsible for out economic and federal fiscal turmoil right now, not president Obama. Right-leaning individuals are for economic inequality and lack of opportunity, are often socially conservative (meaning they are for social inequality), and are delusional enough to use an invisible product (God) to back it up. This applies to any libertarians to an even greater extent, religion problem aside. They support Darwinian economics, believing that smaller government translates to more freedoms. Both libertarians and conservatives could not be farther from the truth.

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10-07-2013, 05:12 PM
RE: Redeveloping my worldview
(10-07-2013 04:58 PM)Revenant77x Wrote:  
(10-07-2013 04:41 PM)Derek Hammar Wrote:  When I first became an atheist, I told myself that despite my lack of belief in a god, I wouldn't give up my "christian values". I still wanted to be a good person, but now I see that my old values were either obvious, or unjust. I am currently in the closet, and all the people I know are christian, so I have nobody to turn to. I have always believed that abortion is wrong, but now I'm not sure, I still dislike the idea of killing the unborn baby, but as the youtuber "the religious antagonist" put it, is masturbation then murder too? I'm 15 years old, and realize now that my political views may need some adjusting as well, my parents are hardcore republican, as well as all (but one) of my friends. This may be in the wrong section but, would someone please inform me on their differences, as unbiased as possible. I understand that that might be difficult, as I have yet to find an unbiased description of either party online. I am told that when the government gives handouts, most people that get the money aren't even trying to support themselves. I am told that Obama is stupid, yet now I see Romney was wearing magic underwear, so I question the intelligence of them both now. If there are any big issues that I might not know about, please let me know, thanks all for reading and look forward to your responses.

PS. Anyone feel free to present your opinion, I would love it if all different opinions were presented, as I have no experience with any but my parents.

First off lets get this out of the way, Neither Romney nor Obama were stupid, one graduated with honors from Harvard the other had an Ivy League education and ran several fortune 500 companies. Generally intelligence questions about politicians are merely Ad Hominem attacks from incredulity (How could an intelligent person not agree with my take on the situation)

As to abortion that's a tricky one but the safest position is Pro choice and I can argue it is the better option for actually reducing abortion. The problem here is how much do you need everyone else to live with your morality? I'm for smaller government so I prefer for government to just stay out of the decision altogether so Pro Choice. I also believe that the actual way to reduce abortions is with actual information on condoms and all other forms of birth control dispelling the stupid myths that uninformed teens build up about how pregnancy works (Mt Dew myth anyone?) I can go more in depth as to why this should be the default position but will hold off to see how this discussion unfolds.

How about this, I'll try to defend the dogma I was handed, play devils advocate (at least until some other people join the thread), and you state your points. As for whether or not Obama or Romney are stupid, sure they aren't stupid, but are definitely mislead and therefore could do something stupid as a result of their being mislead.
Excl *DISCLAIMER* These are not my own opinions *DISCLAIMER*Excl

The choice of an abortion can easily be used as a get out of jail free card. Somebody makes a mistake, and instead of paying the consequences, they kill the unwanted child. Birth control is readily available, so the option of killing the baby need not be necessary. Many couples want to adopt, so if you make a mistake, give the child to them to have a life.

Against logic there is no armor like ignorance. -Laurence J. Peter
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10-07-2013, 05:15 PM
RE: Redeveloping my worldview
(10-07-2013 05:12 PM)Derek Hammar Wrote:  The choice of an abortion can easily be used as a get out of jail free card. Somebody makes a mistake, and instead of paying the consequences, they kill the unwanted child. Birth control is readily available, so the option of killing the baby need not be necessary. Many couples want to adopt, so if you make a mistake, give the child to them to have a life.

*alright, I'll play along*

So instead of supporting the life because you consider it a living human being, you believe the child should be used as a means of punishment? Whatever happened to the concern for the child? How is it even "killing" if over 90% of abortions occur before brain waves are even emitted? Birth control is not always guaranteed to work. And, despite the malformed argument of adoption, more than 11 million children in the United States are currently in queue for a home. There are not enough parents adopting.

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10-07-2013, 05:23 PM
RE: Redeveloping my worldview
(10-07-2013 05:15 PM)Logica Humano Wrote:  
(10-07-2013 05:12 PM)Derek Hammar Wrote:  The choice of an abortion can easily be used as a get out of jail free card. Somebody makes a mistake, and instead of paying the consequences, they kill the unwanted child. Birth control is readily available, so the option of killing the baby need not be necessary. Many couples want to adopt, so if you make a mistake, give the child to them to have a life.

*alright, I'll play along*

So instead of supporting the life because you consider it a living human being, you believe the child should be used as a means of punishment? Whatever happened to the concern for the child? How is it even "killing" if over 90% of abortions occur before brain waves are even emitted? Birth control is not always guaranteed to work. And, despite the malformed argument of adoption, more than 11 million children in the United States are currently in queue for a home. There are not enough parents adopting.

Not a means of punishment, rather the baby deserves to live as much as any other human, so people should not be able to use abortion as a way to avoid embarrassment or any other unpleasant effects.

Against logic there is no armor like ignorance. -Laurence J. Peter
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10-07-2013, 05:30 PM
RE: Redeveloping my worldview
(10-07-2013 05:10 PM)Logica Humano Wrote:  
(10-07-2013 04:41 PM)Derek Hammar Wrote:  When I first became an atheist, I told myself that despite my lack of belief in a god, I wouldn't give up my "christian values". I still wanted to be a good person, but now I see that my old values were either obvious, or unjust. I am currently in the closet, and all the people I know are christian, so I have nobody to turn to. I have always believed that abortion is wrong, but now I'm not sure, I still dislike the idea of killing the unborn baby, but as the youtuber "the religious antagonist" put it, is masturbation then murder too? I'm 15 years old, and realize now that my political views may need some adjusting as well, my parents are hardcore republican, as well as all (but one) of my friends. This may be in the wrong section but, would someone please inform me on their differences, as unbiased as possible. I understand that that might be difficult, as I have yet to find an unbiased description of either party online. I am told that when the government gives handouts, most people that get the money aren't even trying to support themselves. I am told that Obama is stupid, yet now I see Romney was wearing magic underwear, so I question the intelligence of them both now. If there are any big issues that I might not know about, please let me know, thanks all for reading and look forward to your responses.

PS. Anyone feel free to present your opinion, I would love it if all different opinions were presented, as I have no experience with any but my parents.

Haha, abandon all preconceptions before I begin to tell you this. I began debating in this forum when I was not much older than you and, to be honest, I am not much older than you now.

First of all, what is the matter with abortion? Why is preventing an unwanted unborn child a bad thing? Second of all, why would you question Obama's intelligence? The only thing questionable about the man is where his allegiance lies. The issue with Obama, and this is coming from liberal, is that he is not nearly strong enough with his left-leaning views and, instead, continues to cater to the idiotic Republican congressman.

The Republican congress is responsible for out economic and federal fiscal turmoil right now, not president Obama. Right-leaning individuals are for economic inequality and lack of opportunity, are often socially conservative (meaning they are for social inequality), and are delusional enough to use an invisible product (God) to back it up. This applies to any libertarians to an even greater extent, religion problem aside. They support Darwinian economics, believing that smaller government translates to more freedoms. Both libertarians and conservatives could not be farther from the truth.

These are a few real concerns, my actual opinions.
We should definitely be concerned that Obama is religious, as religion is the start of most wars, and could influence his decisions. To what views are you talking about that he is not left-sided enough? Why are right-sided individuals to blame for the economy? And again, I question his intelligence because I was raised skeptical of democrats, which I am trying to discern if I still should be, and because he believes in the invisible sky ghost.

Against logic there is no armor like ignorance. -Laurence J. Peter
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10-07-2013, 05:31 PM
RE: Redeveloping my worldview
One more thing, how do you get so many stars next to your name? What do they mean? I had three and for some reason lost two...

Against logic there is no armor like ignorance. -Laurence J. Peter
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10-07-2013, 05:46 PM
RE: Redeveloping my worldview
A zygote is not a baby, it's a zygote. It can be hard to rationalise that and for some people that means emotional trauma but in reality it was never conscious, it never knew it was alive, it never knew it was aborted.

I have a kid out of wedlock, it's not easy, me and my fiancee had only been dating a year when we had to adapt. I't been hard for me and I was 27 when my kid was born and I have a good paying career. One cannot expect people living on minimum wage or young people still getting their education to bring a pregnancy to term. You need a home, a stable living, two healthy parents... It's extraordinarily difficult and the result is all too often a kid that doesn't get the attention/care/support that it needs growing up to cost the tax payer 60K a year in prison housing.

I love my daughter, I dont regret her in any way and I wouldn't change things...but damned if I wasn't looking forward to another 5 years of being a 20 something.

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10-07-2013, 06:03 PM (This post was last modified: 10-07-2013 06:09 PM by Logica Humano.)
RE: Redeveloping my worldview
(10-07-2013 05:23 PM)Derek Hammar Wrote:  Not a means of punishment, rather the baby deserves to live as much as any other human, so people should not be able to use abortion as a way to avoid embarrassment or any other unpleasant effects.

How does this zygote or fetus have a right to live? It is neither medically nor scientifically considered a human being, and again, the overwhelming majority of abortions occur before the fetus even begins to develop a functioning brain. What about abortions for individuals who are raped? What about mothers with medical complications that will harm both the mother and the developing child?

(10-07-2013 05:30 PM)Derek Hammar Wrote:  These are a few real concerns, my actual opinions.
We should definitely be concerned that Obama is religious, as religion is the start of most wars, and could influence his decisions. To what views are you talking about that he is not left-sided enough? Why are right-sided individuals to blame for the economy? And again, I question his intelligence because I was raised skeptical of democrats, which I am trying to discern if I still should be, and because he believes in the invisible sky ghost.

Fiscal conservatism and supply-side economics are designed to cater to those who are already rich. The concepts state that giving money to high-income individuals will spur growth in a stagnate economy. Not only is it demonstrably false simply by looking at previous attempts at the system, but high-income individuals have more money than half of America. Obama has been trying to get both sides to work together, even though it clearly won't happen.

Democrats are, more often than not, miles ahead Republicans when it comes to intelligence. Republicans/Conservatives have Michelle Bachman, Sarah Palin, Anne Coulter, Rush Limbaugh, Donald Trump, Bill O'Reilly, etc. Democrats/Liberals have Andy Borowitz, Bill Maher, Michael Moore, Stephen Colbert, etc.

(10-07-2013 05:31 PM)Derek Hammar Wrote:  One more thing, how do you get so many stars next to your name? What do they mean? I had three and for some reason lost two...

They recently changed the criteria, but you earn them based on the number of posts you have and how much time you spend on the forum.

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