Redeveloping my worldview
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10-07-2013, 09:38 PM
RE: Redeveloping my worldview
(10-07-2013 08:59 PM)Revenant77x Wrote:  
(10-07-2013 08:09 PM)Derek Hammar Wrote:  Wow. I walked away from my computer for a few hours and this thread is already my longest. By the way, I left my PC to tell my mom that i'm an atheist. Didn't go over well, but that's for a different part of the forum. Anyways, I like all your ideas about abortion, and while I think that it is wrong, I think that it would be more wrong to let the child live, growing up in an environment such as described. I'm not sure that I fully understand minimum wage, as it is 7.50 in the US, yet I make 6.50/hr. How does that work(I work at a movie theater, if that's relevant). I'm not so sure 17.00/hr is a good idea, as employers would then have to cut employees to pay them more.

Thats the lie they tell to stop people from demanding fair pay. It has not once happened in the history of the minimum wage. As for your situation I have no idea unless you can accept tips (that changes the rules and the minimum wage for that is like $2.30/hr) GL with the fallout of coming out people can be rather intolerant of freethought

Nope I can't accept tips, ah well it's fine by me, but I don't understand, where would this money come from then? Either people would be fired, or the employer would get substantially less money(as I see it). Thanks, you have no idea how weird it is with my mom (well, you probably did the same thing at some point).

Against logic there is no armor like ignorance. -Laurence J. Peter
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10-07-2013, 09:41 PM
RE: Redeveloping my worldview
(10-07-2013 09:38 PM)Derek Hammar Wrote:  
(10-07-2013 08:59 PM)Revenant77x Wrote:  Thats the lie they tell to stop people from demanding fair pay. It has not once happened in the history of the minimum wage. As for your situation I have no idea unless you can accept tips (that changes the rules and the minimum wage for that is like $2.30/hr) GL with the fallout of coming out people can be rather intolerant of freethought

Nope I can't accept tips, ah well it's fine by me, but I don't understand, where would this money come from then? Either people would be fired, or the employer would get substantially less money(as I see it). Thanks, you have no idea how weird it is with my mom (well, you probably did the same thing at some point).

It is compensated by the boost in the economy from people having more money to spend. Businesses do more business to make up for the extra pay. It's like the tax breaks for the rich plan the republicans keep pushing except it actually works and has real data to say so.

(31-07-2014 04:37 PM)Luminon Wrote:  America is full of guns, but they're useless, because nobody has the courage to shoot an IRS agent in self-defense
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11-07-2013, 04:44 PM
RE: Redeveloping my worldview
(10-07-2013 09:41 PM)Revenant77x Wrote:  
(10-07-2013 09:38 PM)Derek Hammar Wrote:  Nope I can't accept tips, ah well it's fine by me, but I don't understand, where would this money come from then? Either people would be fired, or the employer would get substantially less money(as I see it). Thanks, you have no idea how weird it is with my mom (well, you probably did the same thing at some point).

It is compensated by the boost in the economy from people having more money to spend. Businesses do more business to make up for the extra pay. It's like the tax breaks for the rich plan the republicans keep pushing except it actually works and has real data to say so.

Interesting. Could you please tell me where I might find this data? The only thing that might happen, as I see it, is that once the minimum wage jumped from 7.50 to 17.00, the business would be loosing money until it compensated by doing more business, right? If that happens, some might raise prices, and then were no better off than we started, because all we did was lower the value of a dollar. In writing this, I realized that an incremental increase in the minimum wage would solve this problem.

Against logic there is no armor like ignorance. -Laurence J. Peter
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11-07-2013, 05:03 PM (This post was last modified: 11-07-2013 05:09 PM by Logica Humano.)
RE: Redeveloping my worldview
(11-07-2013 04:44 PM)Derek Hammar Wrote:  Interesting. Could you please tell me where I might find this data? The only thing that might happen, as I see it, is that once the minimum wage jumped from 7.50 to 17.00, the business would be loosing money until it compensated by doing more business, right? If that happens, some might raise prices, and then were no better off than we started, because all we did was lower the value of a dollar. In writing this, I realized that an incremental increase in the minimum wage would solve this problem.

Companies are not hurting for money while the transition is made.

[Image: household-incomes-mean-nominal.gif]

The average worker's wage has been relatively stagnant for almost 40 years and it has not kept up with worker productivity.

[Image: images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSiIpNCy4xC849f7ktchLY...3j6KKt8UGw]

But that should be expected when labor unions lose power.

[Image: unions_chart1.jpg]

The nation's overall economic growth:

[Image: ecc1_5-eng.gif]

[Image: Untitled-2.png?_subject_uid=322943157&am...Y7Dzq4lJog]
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11-07-2013, 05:06 PM
RE: Redeveloping my worldview
(11-07-2013 04:44 PM)Derek Hammar Wrote:  
(10-07-2013 09:41 PM)Revenant77x Wrote:  It is compensated by the boost in the economy from people having more money to spend. Businesses do more business to make up for the extra pay. It's like the tax breaks for the rich plan the republicans keep pushing except it actually works and has real data to say so.

Interesting. Could you please tell me where I might find this data? The only thing that might happen, as I see it, is that once the minimum wage jumped from 7.50 to 17.00, the business would be loosing money until it compensated by doing more business, right? If that happens, some might raise prices, and then were no better off than we started, because all we did was lower the value of a dollar. In writing this, I realized that an incremental increase in the minimum wage would solve this problem.

http://www.americanprogress.org/issues/e...usinesses/

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-12-28...e-day.html

The second link shows how Inflation has overtaken Minimum wage already. If one were to adjust the original minimum wage of $.25/hr to today's production level it would be $22.50/hr Citation. The majority of businesses keep employee costs (this would be total compensation so health care and wages plus whatever other benefits offered) to about 1/4 to 1/3 of their budget. I don't want to throw too many numbers at you because economics can get really wonkish but trust me on this one the numbers favor a higher minimum wage not a lower one.

(31-07-2014 04:37 PM)Luminon Wrote:  America is full of guns, but they're useless, because nobody has the courage to shoot an IRS agent in self-defense
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11-07-2013, 05:40 PM
RE: Redeveloping my worldview
(11-07-2013 05:03 PM)Logica Humano Wrote:  
(11-07-2013 04:44 PM)Derek Hammar Wrote:  Interesting. Could you please tell me where I might find this data? The only thing that might happen, as I see it, is that once the minimum wage jumped from 7.50 to 17.00, the business would be loosing money until it compensated by doing more business, right? If that happens, some might raise prices, and then were no better off than we started, because all we did was lower the value of a dollar. In writing this, I realized that an incremental increase in the minimum wage would solve this problem.

Companies are not hurting for money while the transition is made.

[Image: household-incomes-mean-nominal.gif]

The average worker's wage has been relatively stagnant for almost 40 years and it has not kept up with worker productivity.

[Image: images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSiIpNCy4xC849f7ktchLY...3j6KKt8UGw]

But that should be expected when labor unions lose power.

[Image: unions_chart1.jpg]

The nation's overall economic growth:

[Image: ecc1_5-eng.gif]

Look here bub, if your gonna keep showing me up by tripling your charts after I post my citations we gonna rumble. Smile

(31-07-2014 04:37 PM)Luminon Wrote:  America is full of guns, but they're useless, because nobody has the courage to shoot an IRS agent in self-defense
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11-07-2013, 06:52 PM
RE: Redeveloping my worldview
(11-07-2013 05:06 PM)Revenant77x Wrote:  
(11-07-2013 04:44 PM)Derek Hammar Wrote:  Interesting. Could you please tell me where I might find this data? The only thing that might happen, as I see it, is that once the minimum wage jumped from 7.50 to 17.00, the business would be loosing money until it compensated by doing more business, right? If that happens, some might raise prices, and then were no better off than we started, because all we did was lower the value of a dollar. In writing this, I realized that an incremental increase in the minimum wage would solve this problem.

http://www.americanprogress.org/issues/e...usinesses/

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-12-28...e-day.html

The second link shows how Inflation has overtaken Minimum wage already. If one were to adjust the original minimum wage of $.25/hr to today's production level it would be $22.50/hr Citation. The majority of businesses keep employee costs (this would be total compensation so health care and wages plus whatever other benefits offered) to about 1/4 to 1/3 of their budget. I don't want to throw too many numbers at you because economics can get really wonkish but trust me on this one the numbers favor a higher minimum wage not a lower one.

Wow. That really is amazing, thank you so much. I would have thought that prices would rise dramatically to compensate, yet they would only have to raise the price of a $7 item by four cents.Shocking

Against logic there is no armor like ignorance. -Laurence J. Peter
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11-07-2013, 07:06 PM
RE: Redeveloping my worldview
(11-07-2013 06:52 PM)Derek Hammar Wrote:  
(11-07-2013 05:06 PM)Revenant77x Wrote:  http://www.americanprogress.org/issues/e...usinesses/

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-12-28...e-day.html

The second link shows how Inflation has overtaken Minimum wage already. If one were to adjust the original minimum wage of $.25/hr to today's production level it would be $22.50/hr Citation. The majority of businesses keep employee costs (this would be total compensation so health care and wages plus whatever other benefits offered) to about 1/4 to 1/3 of their budget. I don't want to throw too many numbers at you because economics can get really wonkish but trust me on this one the numbers favor a higher minimum wage not a lower one.

Wow. That really is amazing, thank you so much. I would have thought that prices would rise dramatically to compensate, yet they would only have to raise the price of a $7 item by four cents.Shocking

Welcome to reality, it's much nicer here than fantasyland. So what other political lies do you need dispelled?

(31-07-2014 04:37 PM)Luminon Wrote:  America is full of guns, but they're useless, because nobody has the courage to shoot an IRS agent in self-defense
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11-07-2013, 08:49 PM
RE: Redeveloping my worldview
(11-07-2013 07:06 PM)Revenant77x Wrote:  
(11-07-2013 06:52 PM)Derek Hammar Wrote:  Wow. That really is amazing, thank you so much. I would have thought that prices would rise dramatically to compensate, yet they would only have to raise the price of a $7 item by four cents.Shocking

Welcome to reality, it's much nicer here than fantasyland. So what other political lies do you need dispelled?

Well, I've been told that most people who receive handouts from the government don't even try to get a job, and if this is the case I really am against giving them money. People shouldn't be able to do nothing all day and still get money, unless of course they are trying to get a job, or don't have enough to support a family despite a job. I've been told that big government is bad, that the Iraq war was just (come to think of it, i'm not even sure why we had the war, just that I've been told it was okay. I've been told that a government funded healthcare would dramatically increase taxes, some countries paying up to 50% of their income to taxes. If that is the case, I'm not sure how I feel on it. On one hand, I never get sick, so I wouldn't need healthcare. On the other hand, some people may need it, and if they can't afford it, we should all help pitch in. I have been told that if there was government healthcare, the quality would go down (idk why), and that there would be a long waiting line, as much as a month. That's all for now, it's a pretty long list so good luck and thank you so much!

Against logic there is no armor like ignorance. -Laurence J. Peter
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11-07-2013, 09:59 PM
RE: Redeveloping my worldview
(11-07-2013 08:49 PM)Derek Hammar Wrote:  Well, I've been told that most people who receive handouts from the government don't even try to get a job, and if this is the case I really am against giving them money. People shouldn't be able to do nothing all day and still get money, unless of course they are trying to get a job, or don't have enough to support a family despite a job.
This is a convenient lie, most people on government assistance actually only stay on it for under 20 months. There are cases of welfare fraud and people that live off the system but it is not the majority (it's actually only around 1% or so of the people that use government assistance) It also discounts the 2 main groups on government assistance Children and the elderly. The numbers that get thrown around include people on medicare and medicaid and people on foodstamps so it is way more complicated than most right wing ideologues would like you to believe.


(11-07-2013 08:49 PM)Derek Hammar Wrote:  I've been told that big government is bad, that the Iraq war was just (come to think of it, i'm not even sure why we had the war, just that I've been told it was okay.

Iraq is a very complicated matter and worthy of a thread to itself. My suggestion here is to study it from all angles because there are a few good points to it (removal of a sadistic regime, freedom for the kurdish people) and many many negative ones (lies about wmd's, torture, Gitmo, lose of standing for the US internationally, Halliburton, etc...)

(11-07-2013 08:49 PM)Derek Hammar Wrote:  I've been told that a government funded healthcare would dramatically increase taxes, some countries paying up to 50% of their income to taxes. If that is the case, I'm not sure how I feel on it. On one hand, I never get sick, so I wouldn't need healthcare. On the other hand, some people may need it, and if they can't afford it, we should all help pitch in. I have been told that if there was government healthcare, the quality would go down (idk why), and that there would be a long waiting line, as much as a month. That's all for now, it's a pretty long list so good luck and thank you so much!

Ah healthcare, it was mentioned earlier and the reaction of the rightwing to obvious data is typical, America is perfect and everywhere else sucks discount any data that does not support this premiss. Go google norway and see what state run healthcare looks like.

(31-07-2014 04:37 PM)Luminon Wrote:  America is full of guns, but they're useless, because nobody has the courage to shoot an IRS agent in self-defense
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