Regarding Prayer and the Lottery
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13-04-2017, 07:44 PM
Regarding Prayer and the Lottery
I've been going through a stretch of unemployment and finally have a solid possibility. One of the more stubborn leftovers from my faith years (35 years of fundamentalism) has been the temptation to pray when I feel desperate. I came to recognize that my desire to pray is the same feeling that I have when I play the lottery. It's a feeling of desperation. It's not that I think that either god or the lottery loves me. I am just looking for an easy resolution to a difficult problem. Being a non-believer means a lot to me and has been more enriching than at any time in my life as a christian. But a big part of de-converting for me was accepting and embracing my own responsibilities and giving up the childish act of running to jesus to bail me out. Another part of this dynamic is giving myself credit for earning what I have rather than feeling like I am a helpless victim whom god must always be bailing out, like he is doing me some kind of undeserved favor. Anyway, hopefully I will have an offer letter in a week or so but this has been a good experience to practice agency and learning to stand on my own two feet.
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13-04-2017, 07:47 PM
RE: Regarding Prayer and the Lottery
And, of course, no Good And True Christian has ever prayed for an end to war.
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13-04-2017, 08:01 PM
RE: Regarding Prayer and the Lottery
If prayer worked the church would win the fucking lottery every week.

Atheism is NOT a Religion. It's A Personal Relationship With Reality!
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13-04-2017, 08:41 PM
RE: Regarding Prayer and the Lottery
(13-04-2017 07:44 PM)LimitedUbiquity Wrote:  I've been going through a stretch of unemployment and finally have a solid possibility. One of the more stubborn leftovers from my faith years (35 years of fundamentalism) has been the temptation to pray when I feel desperate. I came to recognize that my desire to pray is the same feeling that I have when I play the lottery. It's a feeling of desperation. It's not that I think that either god or the lottery loves me. I am just looking for an easy resolution to a difficult problem. Being a non-believer means a lot to me and has been more enriching than at any time in my life as a christian. But a big part of de-converting for me was accepting and embracing my own responsibilities and giving up the childish act of running to jesus to bail me out. Another part of this dynamic is giving myself credit for earning what I have rather than feeling like I am a helpless victim whom god must always be bailing out, like he is doing me some kind of undeserved favor. Anyway, hopefully I will have an offer letter in a week or so but this has been a good experience to practice agency and learning to stand on my own two feet.

I hope things go well for you Hug

Looking back, I completely agree, praying was a 'way' to shovel off the effort needed to solve a problen. And then you made that effort anyway.

Ignorance is not to be ignored.

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13-04-2017, 11:13 PM
RE: Regarding Prayer and the Lottery
Nice work! And good analysis too Smile I hope things work out for you.

I have a website here which discusses the issues and terminology surrounding religion and atheism. It's hopefully user friendly to all.
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13-04-2017, 11:18 PM
RE: Regarding Prayer and the Lottery
(13-04-2017 07:44 PM)LimitedUbiquity Wrote:  I came to recognize that my desire to pray is the same feeling that I have when I play the lottery. It's a feeling of desperation. It's not that I think that either god or the lottery loves me. I am just looking for an easy resolution to a difficult problem.

That's a nice metaphor.

#sigh
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14-04-2017, 05:44 AM
RE: Regarding Prayer and the Lottery
At least you do have a chance of winning the lottery.

Best of luck and good wishes on the potential job!

See here they are the bruises some were self-inflicted and some showed up along the way. - JF

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14-04-2017, 05:50 AM
RE: Regarding Prayer and the Lottery
(13-04-2017 07:44 PM)LimitedUbiquity Wrote:  I've been going through a stretch of unemployment and finally have a solid possibility. One of the more stubborn leftovers from my faith years (35 years of fundamentalism) has been the temptation to pray when I feel desperate. I came to recognize that my desire to pray is the same feeling that I have when I play the lottery. It's a feeling of desperation. It's not that I think that either god or the lottery loves me. I am just looking for an easy resolution to a difficult problem. Being a non-believer means a lot to me and has been more enriching than at any time in my life as a christian. But a big part of de-converting for me was accepting and embracing my own responsibilities and giving up the childish act of running to jesus to bail me out. Another part of this dynamic is giving myself credit for earning what I have rather than feeling like I am a helpless victim whom god must always be bailing out, like he is doing me some kind of undeserved favor. Anyway, hopefully I will have an offer letter in a week or so but this has been a good experience to practice agency and learning to stand on my own two feet.

I remember when I went through this when I was in my agnostic phase, I had already reasoned that taking action using your own abilities was far more effective than prayer. I had been working on an assembly line for years and decided to go for a promotion in a technical position at the factory.

When I decided to put in real effort towards this goal, I vowed to myself I would not utter a single prayer in regards to this, I wanted to prove to myself that I didn't need this ritual to effect positive change in my life.

It took a while, but I did eventually get the promotion through a concerted effort. This gave me a tremendous sense of accomplishment, not only did I get this promotion without a single prayer being uttered, but I also proved to myself that it was my effort; and mine alone, that achieved this.

It was fucking awesome to realize that I really didn't need religious rituals to have good things happen to me, I needed to believe in myself and then take concerted action to get things done.

This was one of those moments where you realize that god or religion is not a necessary component in life, you stand or fall on your own. It is scary and exhilarating at the same time.

Gods derive their power from post-hoc rationalizations. -The Inquisition

Using the supernatural to explain events in your life is a failure of the intellect to comprehend the world around you. -The Inquisition
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14-04-2017, 06:14 AM
RE: Regarding Prayer and the Lottery
(13-04-2017 08:41 PM)Loom Wrote:  
(13-04-2017 07:44 PM)LimitedUbiquity Wrote:  I've been going through a stretch of unemployment and finally have a solid possibility. One of the more stubborn leftovers from my faith years (35 years of fundamentalism) has been the temptation to pray when I feel desperate. I came to recognize that my desire to pray is the same feeling that I have when I play the lottery. It's a feeling of desperation. It's not that I think that either god or the lottery loves me. I am just looking for an easy resolution to a difficult problem. Being a non-believer means a lot to me and has been more enriching than at any time in my life as a christian. But a big part of de-converting for me was accepting and embracing my own responsibilities and giving up the childish act of running to jesus to bail me out. Another part of this dynamic is giving myself credit for earning what I have rather than feeling like I am a helpless victim whom god must always be bailing out, like he is doing me some kind of undeserved favor. Anyway, hopefully I will have an offer letter in a week or so but this has been a good experience to practice agency and learning to stand on my own two feet.

I hope things go well for you Hug

Looking back, I completely agree, praying was a 'way' to shovel off the effort needed to solve a problen. And then you made that effort anyway.

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14-04-2017, 08:47 AM
RE: Regarding Prayer and the Lottery
(13-04-2017 07:44 PM)LimitedUbiquity Wrote:  I've been going through a stretch of unemployment and finally have a solid possibility. One of the more stubborn leftovers from my faith years (35 years of fundamentalism) has been the temptation to pray when I feel desperate. I came to recognize that my desire to pray is the same feeling that I have when I play the lottery. It's a feeling of desperation. It's not that I think that either god or the lottery loves me. I am just looking for an easy resolution to a difficult problem. Being a non-believer means a lot to me and has been more enriching than at any time in my life as a christian. But a big part of de-converting for me was accepting and embracing my own responsibilities and giving up the childish act of running to jesus to bail me out. Another part of this dynamic is giving myself credit for earning what I have rather than feeling like I am a helpless victim whom god must always be bailing out, like he is doing me some kind of undeserved favor. Anyway, hopefully I will have an offer letter in a week or so but this has been a good experience to practice agency and learning to stand on my own two feet.

Here's to hoping everything works out.

I've been an Atheist since I was 14. When I started thinking for myself instead of thinking that there was this divine being as the driving force in my life, I learned to accept my failures, mistakes, and successes as my own.
I understand your take on prayer as that was the one thing that I struggled with (even at 14) though I think that it had more to do with being brought up by my devout Christian family. We prayed all the time growing up so that is what I was used to doing. They still hold hands and pray during Thanksgiving, Christmas, etc... and I just go along with it. It's not worth rocking the boat during times like these and they all know I'm an Atheist anyway. I just keep my eyes open and hope they finish fast so we can eat.

What I find funny about prayer (besides the fact that it is completely irrational) is if what you pray for comes to fruition then your prayer was answered. But if it doesn't it just wasn't God's will. It's a coin toss either way you look at it.
I love it when the boxer says "First I'd like to give all thanks to God" after he just beat the shit out of this other guy or the Football player that holds the ball up to God after a touchdown. Unless God is a football fan... I doubt he'd give a shit.

I get to decide what my life looks like, not the other way around.
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