Rehearsing for Death
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06-10-2015, 12:28 PM
RE: Rehearsing for Death
(06-10-2015 06:59 AM)morondog Wrote:  Er... I don't find it ludicrous. If you have a knife on you, you are more likely than someone who does not, to kill someone. If you have a lotto ticket, you are more likely to win the lotto than someone who doesn't *purely by default*.

I carry a knife every day for work use. When I encounter an argumentative customer, the knife doesn't enter my thinking at all.

It only changes the possibility, not the probability. The probability relies on so much more than possessing the means.
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06-10-2015, 01:03 PM
RE: Rehearsing for Death
(06-10-2015 12:20 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  
(06-10-2015 11:49 AM)onlinebiker Wrote:  I think you missed my point.

Did you look up Liviu Librescu???

He died protecting his students. He did the absolute best he could - which in his case was literally putting himself in the gunman's way - so his students could flee out a window. I wish this brave man had had a gun. He might be alive today.

John Wayne was never a hero.

Wasn't he the guy at Virginia Tech? A college?

Comparing college kids to prek? You're not going to send 4 year olds through a window, unless you're told to by someone on the outside that knows for sure they're going to be safe. Do I need to keep mentioning we're talking about FOUR YEAR OLDS? This is what I mean by your disconnect.

In most grammar school classrooms the windows don't really open wide enough -- during a lockdown they're closed and covered so no one can see in. The classroom doors are locked from the inside and students are moved to safest part of the classroom. In the article Pablo posted it happened to be a closet. Because its your job to keep them all together because at that age they are like herding feral cats, you have to keep them very quiet because one makes noise they all will. They have piss poor self control

Lockdowns are actually fairly common. Schools will go into lockdown for lots of reasons most don't involve an active shooter on campus (robberies, police chase, etc). grammar schools are far more likely to go on lockdown for a robbery in the area...because then the main goal is to keep people out and keep kids safe inside.

The fact that he gave his life for someone else is enough - the age of the students is irrelevant. He died saving someone else. That's a hero, in my book.

Every situation of course is different -- but hiding in a closet is tantamount to rolling a dice and hoping you live. Sure - sometimes that's going to be the situation you're forced into -and if that's all you have, you go with it. But WHY would you make that "Plan A" - when planning ahead for something like this?

.................

Ultimately - you're waiting for someone with a gun. SWAT team - a beat cop, the Navy Seals, or some random person who has a gun and knows how to use it.

You can't reason with a monster who's bent on killing innocent people.

.......................................

The difference between prayer and masturbation - is when a guy is through masturbating - he has something to show for his efforts.
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06-10-2015, 01:54 PM
RE: Rehearsing for Death
(06-10-2015 01:03 PM)onlinebiker Wrote:  
(06-10-2015 12:20 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  Wasn't he the guy at Virginia Tech? A college?

Comparing college kids to prek? You're not going to send 4 year olds through a window, unless you're told to by someone on the outside that knows for sure they're going to be safe. Do I need to keep mentioning we're talking about FOUR YEAR OLDS? This is what I mean by your disconnect.

In most grammar school classrooms the windows don't really open wide enough -- during a lockdown they're closed and covered so no one can see in. The classroom doors are locked from the inside and students are moved to safest part of the classroom. In the article Pablo posted it happened to be a closet. Because its your job to keep them all together because at that age they are like herding feral cats, you have to keep them very quiet because one makes noise they all will. They have piss poor self control

Lockdowns are actually fairly common. Schools will go into lockdown for lots of reasons most don't involve an active shooter on campus (robberies, police chase, etc). grammar schools are far more likely to go on lockdown for a robbery in the area...because then the main goal is to keep people out and keep kids safe inside.

The fact that he gave his life for someone else is enough - the age of the students is irrelevant. He died saving someone else. That's a hero, in my book.

Every situation of course is different -- but hiding in a closet is tantamount to rolling a dice and hoping you live. Sure - sometimes that's going to be the situation you're forced into -and if that's all you have, you go with it. But WHY would you make that "Plan A" - when planning ahead for something like this?

.................

Ultimately - you're waiting for someone with a gun. SWAT team - a beat cop, the Navy Seals, or some random person who has a gun and knows how to use it.

You can't reason with a monster who's bent on killing innocent people.

Again Biker, the article isn't so much about what should be done, but rather look at what it's come to.
I don't think anyone here, or has been here for any length of time, misunderstands where you stand on guns or what you think should be done with them.
I thought it was a good article from a different viewpoint I found interesting. It doesn't answer the gun control issue and neither do you.
Frankly, your hyper-enthusiasm about guns, and wanting so badly to jump into a situation where you get to shoot someone are some of the reasons I don't think everyone having access to guns is a good plan.
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06-10-2015, 02:03 PM
RE: Rehearsing for Death
(06-10-2015 01:03 PM)onlinebiker Wrote:  
(06-10-2015 12:20 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  Wasn't he the guy at Virginia Tech? A college?

Comparing college kids to prek? You're not going to send 4 year olds through a window, unless you're told to by someone on the outside that knows for sure they're going to be safe. Do I need to keep mentioning we're talking about FOUR YEAR OLDS? This is what I mean by your disconnect.

In most grammar school classrooms the windows don't really open wide enough -- during a lockdown they're closed and covered so no one can see in. The classroom doors are locked from the inside and students are moved to safest part of the classroom. In the article Pablo posted it happened to be a closet. Because its your job to keep them all together because at that age they are like herding feral cats, you have to keep them very quiet because one makes noise they all will. They have piss poor self control

Lockdowns are actually fairly common. Schools will go into lockdown for lots of reasons most don't involve an active shooter on campus (robberies, police chase, etc). grammar schools are far more likely to go on lockdown for a robbery in the area...because then the main goal is to keep people out and keep kids safe inside.

The fact that he gave his life for someone else is enough - the age of the students is irrelevant. He died saving someone else. That's a hero, in my book.

Every situation of course is different -- but hiding in a closet is tantamount to rolling a dice and hoping you live. Sure - sometimes that's going to be the situation you're forced into -and if that's all you have, you go with it. But WHY would you make that "Plan A" - when planning ahead for something like this?

.................

Ultimately - you're waiting for someone with a gun. SWAT team - a beat cop, the Navy Seals, or some random person who has a gun and knows how to use it.

You can't reason with a monster who's bent on killing innocent people.

Clearly a hero, yes.

I don't think it's reasonable or desirable to expect teachers to be the ones to play the hero in this situation. Otherwise you must acknowledge that you're asking them to go above and beyond and compensate them accordingly - i.e. danger pay, and bloody good danger pay at that. Since when did the job description include "must be willing to undergo firearms training and lay down your life for the brats you teach"?

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(06-02-2014 03:47 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  And I'm giving myself a conclusion again from all the facepalming.
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06-10-2015, 03:06 PM (This post was last modified: 06-10-2015 03:10 PM by onlinebiker.)
RE: Rehearsing for Death
(06-10-2015 01:54 PM)pablo Wrote:  
(06-10-2015 01:03 PM)onlinebiker Wrote:  The fact that he gave his life for someone else is enough - the age of the students is irrelevant. He died saving someone else. That's a hero, in my book.

Every situation of course is different -- but hiding in a closet is tantamount to rolling a dice and hoping you live. Sure - sometimes that's going to be the situation you're forced into -and if that's all you have, you go with it. But WHY would you make that "Plan A" - when planning ahead for something like this?

.................

Ultimately - you're waiting for someone with a gun. SWAT team - a beat cop, the Navy Seals, or some random person who has a gun and knows how to use it.

You can't reason with a monster who's bent on killing innocent people.

Again Biker, the article isn't so much about what should be done, but rather look at what it's come to.
I don't think anyone here, or has been here for any length of time, misunderstands where you stand on guns or what you think should be done with them.
I thought it was a good article from a different viewpoint I found interesting. It doesn't answer the gun control issue and neither do you.
Frankly, your hyper-enthusiasm about guns, and wanting so badly to jump into a situation where you get to shoot someone are some of the reasons I don't think everyone having access to guns is a good plan.

Actually - that last part you've got exactly backwards. Since I started carrying a gun - I ended up AVOIDING places where I'd have confrontation. I've been into a bar maybe 3 times in the last 10 years - and I can't even remember when I last went to a bike event..

To be honest - I really don't miss it much. I like having a low stress life.

Edit to add...

I agree things have gotten bad.

When my dad was in grade school -- every boy there brought a 22 rifle or shotgun INTO THE CLASSROOM -- parked the gun on the back wall in a corner -- then after school -- they all went squirrel hunting.

Every kid carried a knife and usually a slingshot.

They never had an issue.

.......................................

The difference between prayer and masturbation - is when a guy is through masturbating - he has something to show for his efforts.
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06-10-2015, 03:22 PM
RE: Rehearsing for Death
(06-10-2015 05:22 AM)onlinebiker Wrote:  
(06-10-2015 05:14 AM)julep Wrote:  Armed teachers patrolling the halls would make me feel less safe, not more safe.

Let's look at that statement.

Why would you feel less safe if you knew other teachers might be carrying a gun?

If someone wants to hurt you - they can.

If someone wants to hurt you - saying it's illegal to carry a gun is a moot point - if they're planning to shoot you. They're not going to worry about the illegality of a illegal carry -- they're already going to commit murder.

So -- if a person is carrying a concealed gun - with the intent of PROTECTING you, should the need arise --- how can you possibly feel less safe?

I've carried a concealed gun - every day - for 14 years -- and not ONCE has my gun influenced my thinking. It's an inanimate object - it's ability to influence people's decisions is on par with astrology -- planets moving about, changing your life. It's total crap.

Aw jesus online, my husband's been a teacher for 20 years. Go teach kids for a 5 years and then report back to us.

"When everybody's got a gun, anybody can shoot ya." J. L. Stenson

Shakespeare's Comedy of Errors.... on Donald J. Trump:

He is deformed, crooked, old, and sere,
Ill-fac’d, worse bodied, shapeless every where;
Vicious, ungentle, foolish, blunt, unkind,
Stigmatical in making, worse in mind.
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06-10-2015, 04:42 PM
RE: Rehearsing for Death
(06-10-2015 05:00 AM)onlinebiker Wrote:  The REALITY????

The reality is this shit happens and their solution is to hide in a closet.

Yes. That's fucking cowardly. It's not really even a solution.

You don't think the "lone gunman" knows to look in closets????

Now you're all herded up together and he can concentrate his gunfire.

In fact - you did him a favor -- he'll save ammo.

Locked doors?? Big deal -- a twelve gauge with birdshot will open most doors.

A teacher with a concealed carry gun -- with training - would be a better solution AND something of a deterrent.

The REASON they attack schools is "NO GUN" policies. It's safe for them to pull their cowardly attack - slaughtering lambs huddled together in the closets.

When is the last time one of these whackadoodles attacked a gun show, or a police station --- NEVER??? I wonder why.

If you could get the media to cover the training of the teachers in a big way- (without revealing the teacher's identities) - --- those "lone gunmen" would have to think twice about attacking a school.

It's not "John Wayne" -- the reality -- John Wayne was a drunk. He wasn't a hero. He was an actor.

A hero --- Liviu Librescu. Look him up.

A real man with iron balls.

He didn't hide in a fucking closet.

All that sounds pretty reasonable. Except.....I was a little prick in school. A teacher with a gun might have solved that problem a little to well.. Wink
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07-10-2015, 07:28 AM
RE: Rehearsing for Death
(05-10-2015 05:07 PM)pablo Wrote:  A pre-K teacher describes a "lockdown drill" in a U.S. school.
Lockdown

My wife used to teach kindergarten. This was pretty much the same scenario she had. Instead of a closet, her room had a unisex bathroom. So, she had the added challenge of keeping five and six-year-olds from laughing when half of them are right next to the toilet. Bonus points of the last boy to use the toilet didn't use his best aim...
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07-10-2015, 10:41 AM
RE: Rehearsing for Death
In government facilities where compartmentalized classified information is discussed, they have background music playing loud enough in the hallways to drown out any noise that might otherwise make it through the door. Maybe instead of worrying so much about keeping them quiet, which is rationally impossible, they should have a loud intercom playing random children noises all throughout the school once the alarm has been triggered.

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07-10-2015, 10:51 AM
RE: Rehearsing for Death
(07-10-2015 10:41 AM)yakherder Wrote:  In government facilities where compartmentalized classified information is discussed, they have background music playing loud enough in the hallways to drown out any noise that might otherwise make it through the door. Maybe instead of worrying so much about keeping them quiet, which is rationally impossible, they should have a loud intercom playing random children noises all throughout the school once the alarm has been triggered.
Or they could play a One Direction or Backstreet Boys CD and the shooter will just shoot himself.

"Evil will always triumph over good, because good is dumb." - Lord Dark Helmet
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