Rejection of a claim
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03-02-2018, 06:32 PM
RE: Rejection of a claim
(03-02-2018 05:59 PM)Belaqua Wrote:  
(03-02-2018 05:49 PM)brunumb Wrote:  Joe: "There's a Martian base on the far side of the moon".
Flo: "I don't know if that's true or not, but I don't believe it".

What claim is Flo making?

"I claim I know what kind of evidence we would need to believe in a Martian base.

I claim we lack this evidence.

Since we lack such evidence, I claim that we have no reason to believe."

That's two claims. The OP is not asking about that.

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein It is objectively immoral to kill innocent babies. Please stick to the guilty babies.
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03-02-2018, 11:38 PM
RE: Rejection of a claim
(03-02-2018 05:42 PM)Belaqua Wrote:  
(03-02-2018 05:27 PM)Deesse23 Wrote:  It didnt meet my standard of evidence. What is there to explain?
You can explain what your standard of evidence is, and why the claim doesn't meet it.

All i have to present is evidence for my claim of disbelief. My disbelief is the evidence for my claim of disbelief. This has nothing to do with standards for belief and why i dont believe, because my claim is that i dont believe, not that the original claim isnt true.

That is all i am going to say about this inane topic.
I am really astonished about the number of complete bullshit that people are willing to discuss, ad nauseum, these days. Almost as if they dont have enough real problems to take care about in their life. Maybe their lives suck so much that they have to get away from daily routine and its issues. Maybe mental masturbation is as fascinating as the real one. Maybe we are in *need* of another war to bring our feet back to the ground.

Who knows.

As i can see Brunumb and Bucky are already trying to explain to you why you are so utterly wrong, namely because you obviously dont understand what a claim exactly is. So i will leave at that, and whish Bucky a lot of fun, because i am confident this is by far not the end of the rope. Yes, that last one, that was a claim.

Ceterum censeo, religionem delendam esse
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03-02-2018, 11:44 PM
RE: Rejection of a claim
well said Deesse
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03-02-2018, 11:52 PM
RE: Rejection of a claim
(03-02-2018 11:38 PM)Deesse23 Wrote:  That is all i am going to say about this inane topic.

Ditto. Thumbsup

No gods necessary.
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04-02-2018, 09:08 AM
RE: Rejection of a claim
(03-02-2018 12:18 AM)Zink Wrote:  I was watching a debate take place on instagram and it started with a theist asking the question “what makes atheism true?”. It was explained that atheism is the rejection of a claim, not a belief. The theist countered by saying “rejecting a claim is itself a claim. You literally claimed that Christianity did not meet its burden of proof”. This threw the atheist off, it threw me off too.

Logically, is this possible? Is rejecting a claim, making a claim? I guess if I were to say “I reject your claim of a god due to lack of evidence”, and the theist countered that I was making a claim by saying that, what would be a good response?

Reject:

a person or thing dismissed as failing to meet standards or satisfy tastes.


To reject a claim is merely to dismiss it based upon its failure to demonstrate the existence of its merits.

That's all you need to say. If they argue with that, ignore them for their stupidity. Theists like to confuse their adversaries by attempting to baffle them with bullshit.

Call it what it is; bullshit.

Drinking Beverage

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04-02-2018, 09:41 AM
RE: Rejection of a claim
"I can shoot lasers outs of my eyes."

"I don't believe you. Go on then, show me."

"No, you're making a claim that you don't believe that I can shoot lasers out of my eyes. I want to see evidence for that claim. How absurd of you."

I have a website here which discusses the issues and terminology surrounding religion and atheism. It's hopefully user friendly to all.
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04-02-2018, 10:35 AM
RE: Rejection of a claim
Ahead of their time:

"You can choose a ready guide in some celestial voice. If you choose not to decide you still have made a choice. You can choose from phantom fears and kindness that can kill. I will choose a path that's clear. I will choose freewill."




Where are we going and why am I in this hand basket?
"Life is not all lovely thorns and singing vultures, you know." ~ Morticia Addams

"You're only given one little spark of madness. You mustn't lose it." Robin Williams
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04-02-2018, 10:42 AM
RE: Rejection of a claim
"This poison won't kill you."
"Yes it will."
"Prove it."

"This poison will kill you."
"No it won't."
"Prove it."

I choose not to drink the Koolaid. Because I choose not to gag on the bullshit that religion pours out into the world day after day.

Where are we going and why am I in this hand basket?
"Life is not all lovely thorns and singing vultures, you know." ~ Morticia Addams

"You're only given one little spark of madness. You mustn't lose it." Robin Williams
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04-02-2018, 01:57 PM
RE: Rejection of a claim
(03-02-2018 12:18 AM)Zink Wrote:  Logically, is this possible? Is rejecting a claim, making a claim?

In a binary-valued Aristotelian logic where everything must by necessity either true or false, it is. But logic has come a long way since Aristoddled. In multi-valued logics, rejecting a claim does not itself make a definitive claim. I can say "Your God is weak and false while Bob is strong and true and Slack" without making the definitive claim that there is no God/s.

#sigh
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04-02-2018, 05:18 PM
RE: Rejection of a claim
(03-02-2018 12:18 AM)Zink Wrote:  I was watching a debate take place on instagram and it started with a theist asking the question “what makes atheism true?”. It was explained that atheism is the rejection of a claim, not a belief. The theist countered by saying “rejecting a claim is itself a claim. You literally claimed that Christianity did not meet its burden of proof”. This threw the atheist off, it threw me off too.

Logically, is this possible? Is rejecting a claim, making a claim? I guess if I were to say “I reject your claim of a god due to lack of evidence”, and the theist countered that I was making a claim by saying that, what would be a good response?

Making a claim? Now we are getting into rhetorical games. If I think there is no evidence that there is a God, I am implicitly making a claim I do not see good evidence to support the claim God exists. Or I could make that explicit. For somebody to then derail the debate into a meta-debate about claims is an attempt to avoid the real issue. Evidence for existence of God. And why one person might think there is evidence while another may look at the same claims and deny that the claims constitute evidence.

These stupid sort on non-arguments won't convince anybody of anything. And these sort of pseudo-arguments are not clever nor intellectually sophisticated. Sometimes it is just a case of being intellectually confused. Sometimes it is meant to derail a debate that is being lost.

And yes, I make the explicit claim I do not see any good arguments or evidence that God exists.

“It is impossible for someone to lie unless he thinks he knows the truth. Producing bullshit requires no such conviction.”
― Harry G. Frankfurt, On Bullshit

Cheerful Charlie
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