Rejection of a claim
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05-02-2018, 12:48 AM
RE: Rejection of a claim
(03-02-2018 05:59 PM)Belaqua Wrote:  "I claim I know what kind of evidence we would need to believe in a Martian base.

I claim we lack this evidence.

Since we lack such evidence, I claim that we have no reason to believe."

Your silly word games are very tiresome. Sorry; I'm not gonna play.

I'm a creationist... I believe that man created God.
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17-02-2018, 11:39 AM
RE: Rejection of a claim
(03-02-2018 12:18 AM)Zink Wrote:  I was watching a debate take place on instagram and it started with a theist asking the question “what makes atheism true?”. It was explained that atheism is the rejection of a claim, not a belief. The theist countered by saying “rejecting a claim is itself a claim. You literally claimed that Christianity did not meet its burden of proof”. This threw the atheist off, it threw me off too.

Logically, is this possible? Is rejecting a claim, making a claim? I guess if I were to say “I reject your claim of a god due to lack of evidence”, and the theist countered that I was making a claim by saying that, what would be a good response?

Usually the theist asking this is treating atheism is a position of there are no gods. I would be able to answer this question but I would still point out that atheism is not a claim that there are no gods but that the atheist is one who does not hold a theistic belief. But it's also my position that gods do not exist, at least the kinds like in the Bible and the Koran and I know this because the claim that a god exists is self contradictory.

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10-04-2018, 04:27 AM
RE: Rejection of a claim
"I don't believe in Theory of evolution" Thats a claim Smile
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10-04-2018, 05:55 AM
RE: Rejection of a claim
(10-04-2018 04:27 AM)347eat Wrote:  "I don't believe in Theory of evolution" Thats a claim Smile

Sure, but it's a claim with a humongous quantity of observable evidence to back it up.

Which specific part of evolutionary theory do you have a problem with and what evidence do you have that contradicts it?

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10-04-2018, 06:49 AM
RE: Rejection of a claim
(10-04-2018 04:27 AM)347eat Wrote:  "I don't believe in Theory of evolution" Thats a claim Smile

Your statement is one of belief, not a claim of fact. What is your point? Consider

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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10-04-2018, 06:56 AM
RE: Rejection of a claim
(03-02-2018 12:18 AM)Zink Wrote:  I was watching a debate take place on instagram and it started with a theist asking the question “what makes atheism true?”. It was explained that atheism is the rejection of a claim, not a belief. The theist countered by saying “rejecting a claim is itself a claim. You literally claimed that Christianity did not meet its burden of proof”. This threw the atheist off, it threw me off too.

Logically, is this possible? Is rejecting a claim, making a claim? I guess if I were to say “I reject your claim of a god due to lack of evidence”, and the theist countered that I was making a claim by saying that, what would be a good response?

This is just trying to shift the burden of proof.

How much time do you spend trying to disprove the existence of Darth Vader or the tooth fairy?

If I claimed, "I am dating Angelina Jolie". I'd certainly have more evidence that I exist and she exists, but would you stupidly accept it merely because I claimed it?
How much time would you spend trying to actively disprove such a claim? Or would it be up to me to prove that claim?

Christopher Htichens, "That which can be asserted without evidence can be just as easily dismissed without evidence."

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10-04-2018, 10:03 AM
RE: Rejection of a claim
(03-02-2018 12:18 AM)Zink Wrote:  I was watching a debate take place on instagram and it started with a theist asking the question “what makes atheism true?”. It was explained that atheism is the rejection of a claim, not a belief. The theist countered by saying “rejecting a claim is itself a claim. You literally claimed that Christianity did not meet its burden of proof”. This threw the atheist off, it threw me off too.

Logically, is this possible? Is rejecting a claim, making a claim? I guess if I were to say “I reject your claim of a god due to lack of evidence”, and the theist countered that I was making a claim by saying that, what would be a good response?

Atheism is a claim about the belief-state of the atheist. What makes atheism true is the atheist lacking belief.

Of course everyone has different evidentiary standards; it just so happens that believers carve out exceptions for their own beliefs. It's not worth debating, because that point is almost always denied.
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10-04-2018, 10:29 AM
RE: Rejection of a claim
(10-04-2018 10:03 AM)Thumpalumpacus Wrote:  Atheism is a claim about the belief-state of the atheist. What makes atheism true is the atheist lacking belief.

Actually if you think about it, atheism is a response to a claim. The claim is made by theists that a god or gods exists. Atheism simply responds by asking for proof of that claim.

If we didn't have people running about claiming there is a god, there would be no need to be atheist.

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Excreta Tauri Sapientam Fulgeat (The excrement of the bull causes wisdom to flee)
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10-04-2018, 01:16 PM
RE: Rejection of a claim
(10-04-2018 10:29 AM)Silly Deity Wrote:  
(10-04-2018 10:03 AM)Thumpalumpacus Wrote:  Atheism is a claim about the belief-state of the atheist. What makes atheism true is the atheist lacking belief.

Actually if you think about it, atheism is a response to a claim. The claim is made by theists that a god or gods exists. Atheism simply responds by asking for proof of that claim.

Thanks, but I disagree. What you're describing is critical thinking, which is not the same as atheism. Some atheists arrive at their atheism by using critical thinking, others arrive at their atheism by entirely irrational means.

(10-04-2018 10:29 AM)Silly Deity Wrote:  If we didn't have people running about claiming there is a god, there would be no need to be atheist.

That does not mean that calling oneself an atheist is not a claim about oneself. It is exactly that; that is why there are folks such as myself who are both atheist and agnostic.
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10-04-2018, 01:21 PM (This post was last modified: 10-04-2018 09:37 PM by Bucky Ball.)
RE: Rejection of a claim
(03-02-2018 08:06 AM)Belaqua Wrote:  If you say that religious claims don’t meet the burden of proof, or that there's a lack of evidence, then of course you’re making a claim.

No we're not. Dismissing what some propose as "evidence for something" is making no claim. It's nothing but but a comment on evidence. It's not saying anything about the "something".
Someone can believe in God, yet reject what many propose as "proofs" for a god.

Quote:Atheism per se isn’t a claim. But all thinking atheists have heard the claims made by religion, considered them, and rejected them. When we reject them we do so according to certain standards. Though these standards may seem obvious or even trivial (e.g. that science tends to tell us the truth and revelation doesn’t) they are still claims about which people may disagree.

You don't get to say who is or who is not a "thinking atheist", (a Real Atheist).
You're attempt to portray religion and science as opposing, is false. One can be an atheist and reject science as that to which one can look to, for (ultimate) truth.

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein It is objectively immoral to kill innocent babies. Please stick to the guilty babies.
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