Relative Wealth
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19-02-2015, 04:07 AM (This post was last modified: 19-02-2015 04:26 AM by Can_of_Beans.)
Relative Wealth
Jesse Klein: Relative Weath

It starts with

"My family’s household income is $250,000 a year, but I promise you I am middle class. I live in a $2 million dollar house, but I promise you I am still middle class. It has one story, doesn’t have a pool or its own movie theater. It is a modest three-bedroom, two-bath."

and goes downhill from there. Facepalm

"California money is new money, held by software nerds. They don’t dress in suits but in bad dad jeans and fanny packs. Money elsewhere in the country usually means suits and ties and generations of family holdings."

"My friend has a saying: 'I would rather travel in rags than stay at home in Versace.'" Regarding the enlightened way "middle-class" Californians spend money compared to people in other parts of the country.

Anyone remember those old MasterCard commercials? I'm picturing this one going something like this:

-Out of state tuition at UofM: $50,000
-Middle-class home: $2,000,000
-Music festivals & exotic vacations: Hmmm. There's no price listed. Probably because mommy and daddy paid and she never saw the bill.
-Being sheltered from ever finding out how the other half lives? Priceless

There are some things money can't buy, for everything else, there's MasterCard.

Scratch that, MasterCard can take care of that last item too. Dodgy

"I feel as though the camera is almost a kind of voyeur in Mr. Beans life, and you just watch this bizarre man going about his life in the way that he wants to."

-Rowan Atkinson
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19-02-2015, 04:12 AM
RE: Relative Wealth
2 million is middle-class? Dayum. I don't even know what to call myself, living in an apartment that's worth less than 5% of that.

The truth is absolute. Life forms are specks of specks (...) of specks of dust in the universe.
Why settle for normal, when you can be so much more? Why settle for something, when you can have everything?
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19-02-2015, 05:33 AM
RE: Relative Wealth
(19-02-2015 04:12 AM)One Above All Wrote:  2 million is middle-class? Dayum. I don't even know what to call myself, living in an apartment that's worth less than 5% of that.

I've read other studies say that consider, if you have no current debt and have say 10K in the bank, you are considered wealthier than 75% of Americans.

I actually don't remember the exact dollar or % points come to think of it. But it was something along those types of lines.

"Allow there to be a spectrum in all that you see" - Neil Degrasse Tyson
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19-02-2015, 05:42 AM
RE: Relative Wealth
Shit...

If my house burns down, the property values go up....

.......................................

The difference between prayer and masturbation - is when a guy is through masturbating - he has something to show for his efforts.
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19-02-2015, 05:44 AM
RE: Relative Wealth
Bought an old crumbling mobileish home for 40k for the land it was on and the foundation's that were in good condition despite the state of the house, tore most of it down from wall to ceiling (only left the floor), rebuilt/remodeled for about 50k. End result was a comfy 3 bedroom with a modest yard, just under 100k total investment, and now pay only a few hundred per month in property fees and utilities. My girlfriend and I both have above average income, and monthly expenses that could probably be covered with minimum wage. I don't have a degree.

Sometimes over-educated people with no concept of how to actually survive outside of their office crack me up.

'Murican Canadian
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19-02-2015, 05:44 AM
RE: Relative Wealth
(19-02-2015 05:33 AM)ClydeLee Wrote:  
(19-02-2015 04:12 AM)One Above All Wrote:  2 million is middle-class? Dayum. I don't even know what to call myself, living in an apartment that's worth less than 5% of that.

I've read other studies say that consider, if you have no current debt and have say 10K in the bank, you are considered wealthier than 75% of Americans.

I actually don't remember the exact dollar or % points come to think of it. But it was something along those types of lines.

I can't believe that number is not closer to 90%. Most of this country is in extreme debt and has no savings. A few very disturbing things I read recently :

- to pay for your retirement, your net worth by age 50 should be $1,000,000
- by age 45, the average American has put away under $150,000 towards their retirement.
- something like 70% of Americans couldn't come up with $5,000 dollars in 2 weeks in an emergency

We are heading for a massive crisis. People live well above their means, and it is hard not to. The cost of college, housing, etc is crazy and wages are not keeping up. And, that is before you get into the crazy spending and no savings of the average person.

Shackle their minds when they're bent on the cross
When ignorance reigns, life is lost
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19-02-2015, 05:46 AM
RE: Relative Wealth
(19-02-2015 05:33 AM)ClydeLee Wrote:  
(19-02-2015 04:12 AM)One Above All Wrote:  2 million is middle-class? Dayum. I don't even know what to call myself, living in an apartment that's worth less than 5% of that.

I've read other studies say that consider, if you have no current debt and have say 10K in the bank, you are considered wealthier than 75% of Americans.

I actually don't remember the exact dollar or % points come to think of it. But it was something along those types of lines.

...So what you're saying is I'm not wealthier than 75% of Americans.
Americans complain far too much about problems that are their own fault (or just non-existent). Using Breaking Bad (yeah, yeah, TV, not real) as an example, Walter was complaining over his lack of money while living in a two-story house with a pool. I've often heard them complain about gas prices that are cheaper than most (all?) of the first world countries'. Homes are too expensive because they just have to have a house with a pool, garage, two stories, basement, and so on and so forth. No living in apartments; that's just too smart if you want to save money.

The truth is absolute. Life forms are specks of specks (...) of specks of dust in the universe.
Why settle for normal, when you can be so much more? Why settle for something, when you can have everything?
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19-02-2015, 06:32 AM
RE: Relative Wealth
If $250,000 is "middle class" than I am Bangladesh poor as fuck.

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19-02-2015, 06:42 AM
RE: Relative Wealth
The Breaking Bad example is a good one but for the opposite reason you think. In the show, the White's probably lived within their means.

First, where should they have lived? In a box? In a one room apartment in a slum They key to life in the US, and probably most countries, is education. So, you go and live where the better schools are if you have kids and care about such things. And, the towns with the better schools cost more money because they are more desirable. That's how people live. And, I thought the house was a ranch, but that doesn't even matter. Pools are standard in certain parts of the US. You buy a house in south Florida, it comes with a pool. I suspect New Mexico is the same way. It's not that big a luxury in places where it gets sweltering hot, and the cost of having them put in is not that bad when they are put in all the time (compared to where I live where they are not as common and the costs are much, much higher).

The problem Walter White had was he got sick. Sick is what bankrupts most Americans. A Harvard Study a few years ago concluded medical costs are what bankrupts people in this country.

But, even with out all that, people live beyond their means. And, while everyone complains about that, it's very hard not to. The US is an ala cart society. We pay for extra for everything and our corporate built "free market" that eschews all regulation as evil actually puts us in a worst position as consumers than our European counterparts. We have fewer choices and pay more money.

All that said, you are right about choices. There is no reason not to have any savings. Even the average credit card debt of something like $15,000 seems high (although that number I understand). But, it is really, really hard.

My wife and I both work. And, we make a good combined salary, over $200,000 between the two of us. But, it cost money to get there. I have two advanced degrees and my wife has one. My law degree I paid off years ago and my MSc was paid for by my employee. My wife's degree, however, we paid for out of pocket. And, between the cost of her going to school and the increased cost in child care (because she started when my kids were 3 and 5), we spent over $100,000 for her to get that degree, probably closer to $120,000. That's a lot of money out the door and we borrowed half of it. I've got that debt down to about $35k now but it's still money out the door. And, we pay for cars, mortgage, put money away for retirement, and have college to think about it.

The killer will be college. I make too much money to warrant any kind of financial aid and too little money to pay for anything. We are putting some money away but not nearly enough. I haven't figured out how we pay for that yet. And, then there are car repairs, house repairs, doctor bills, etc. And, I don't live in a $2,000,000 house. I bought a house I could afford (but now have to suck up on a major renovation).

I'm not complaining, but this is life. And, it's not cheap. And, my story is typical. The good news for me is I do put money away for retirement and I do put money away every month in savings. We've had some bad luck the past couple of years and had to dip into savings to pay for a bunch of things that went wrong, but at least we didn't have to put it on a credit card. And, now we are building the savings back up again. But, we make enough money to have a little cushion. A little less money in income and we wouldn't. I lose my job, and we are fucked. And, when you are a 46 year old corporate wage slave, losing your job is always an option and not getting another one any time soon is a real possibility.

It's a scary world sometimes. I try not to think too much about it.

Shackle their minds when they're bent on the cross
When ignorance reigns, life is lost
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19-02-2015, 08:45 AM
RE: Relative Wealth
(19-02-2015 06:42 AM)BnW Wrote:  The Breaking Bad example is a good one but for the opposite reason you think. In the show, the White's probably lived within their means.

First, where should they have lived? In a box? In a one room apartment in a slum They key to life in the US, and probably most countries, is education. So, you go and live where the better schools are if you have kids and care about such things. And, the towns with the better schools cost more money because they are more desirable. That's how people live. And, I thought the house was a ranch, but that doesn't even matter. Pools are standard in certain parts of the US. You buy a house in south Florida, it comes with a pool. I suspect New Mexico is the same way. It's not that big a luxury in places where it gets sweltering hot, and the cost of having them put in is not that bad when they are put in all the time (compared to where I live where they are not as common and the costs are much, much higher).

The problem Walter White had was he got sick. Sick is what bankrupts most Americans. A Harvard Study a few years ago concluded medical costs are what bankrupts people in this country.

But, even with out all that, people live beyond their means. And, while everyone complains about that, it's very hard not to. The US is an ala cart society. We pay for extra for everything and our corporate built "free market" that eschews all regulation as evil actually puts us in a worst position as consumers than our European counterparts. We have fewer choices and pay more money.

All that said, you are right about choices. There is no reason not to have any savings. Even the average credit card debt of something like $15,000 seems high (although that number I understand). But, it is really, really hard.

My wife and I both work. And, we make a good combined salary, over $200,000 between the two of us. But, it cost money to get there. I have two advanced degrees and my wife has one. My law degree I paid off years ago and my MSc was paid for by my employee. My wife's degree, however, we paid for out of pocket. And, between the cost of her going to school and the increased cost in child care (because she started when my kids were 3 and 5), we spent over $100,000 for her to get that degree, probably closer to $120,000. That's a lot of money out the door and we borrowed half of it. I've got that debt down to about $35k now but it's still money out the door. And, we pay for cars, mortgage, put money away for retirement, and have college to think about it.

The killer will be college. I make too much money to warrant any kind of financial aid and too little money to pay for anything. We are putting some money away but not nearly enough. I haven't figured out how we pay for that yet. And, then there are car repairs, house repairs, doctor bills, etc. And, I don't live in a $2,000,000 house. I bought a house I could afford (but now have to suck up on a major renovation).

I'm not complaining, but this is life. And, it's not cheap. And, my story is typical. The good news for me is I do put money away for retirement and I do put money away every month in savings. We've had some bad luck the past couple of years and had to dip into savings to pay for a bunch of things that went wrong, but at least we didn't have to put it on a credit card. And, now we are building the savings back up again. But, we make enough money to have a little cushion. A little less money in income and we wouldn't. I lose my job, and we are fucked. And, when you are a 46 year old corporate wage slave, losing your job is always an option and not getting another one any time soon is a real possibility.

It's a scary world sometimes. I try not to think too much about it.

Holy shit, you and I are twins, My situation is almost exactly the same lol. You are correct, it is typical. Weeping

I don't feel so alone now. Drooling

"Belief is so often the death of reason" - Qyburn, Game of Thrones

"The Christian community continues to exist because the conclusions of the critical study of the Bible are largely withheld from them." -Hans Conzelmann (1915-1989)
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