Relative says I can't wear atheist t-shirts in his house.
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11-01-2017, 02:42 AM
RE: Relative says I can't wear atheist t-shirts in his house.
Why is this in PIAS?

It seems to me more to suit the Theism Atheism forum?

At least that's how we all seem to be responding.

NOTE: Member, Tomasia uses this site to slander other individuals. He then later proclaims it a joke, but not in public.
I will call him a liar and a dog here and now.
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11-01-2017, 03:52 AM
RE: Relative says I can't wear atheist t-shirts in his house.
(10-01-2017 11:40 AM)RWulfgar Wrote:  I have a relative who is telling me he's so offended by my atheist t-shirt that I'm not allowed to wear it in his home anymore, or any other kind of atheist t-shirt.

While he has the right to ban me from his property for any reason, I guess, then that will mean I'll have to give up going there for family get-togethers like 4th of July, Halloween, Thanksgiving, Easter, etc., because I refuse to let him be my fashion police and tell me what I can and can't wear.

While I'm ok with not going there anymore for family get-togethers, I believe that will cause a major family uproar. I'm ok with that, too, but it's sad this will be a big hardship on everyone. So to stave that off without knuckling under to his bullying... what is a logical argument I can make that will make my relative understand that being the fashion police is not a good idea?

Should I wear a full burqua next time I'm over there, to take his policing to an absurd conclusion and make him see where his idea leads? Because really, if I let him tell me I can't wear specific shirts, why don't I just let him rummage through my closet and point out all other articles of clothing that offend him? Why don't I let him tell me what hairstyle I should wear, that I can't get a tattoo that's not his cup of tea, you see where this leads?

Now, again, he is only saying I can't wear offensive shirts (so far it's shirts, tomorrow it may be pants, skirts, socks, hats) IN HIS HOME. I can abide by his commandment and never set foot in his home again, or I can try to make him see that living in a free society, a democracy, is a good thing. He wants me to respect his Christian beliefs, but he doesn't want to respect my atheism. Does one of our stances trump the other? If so, whose? What is the argument that will get through to this guy?

My answer is rather simple. Don't come to his house. Don't talk to him anymore. If he misses you after that, well:



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11-01-2017, 08:25 AM
RE: Relative says I can't wear atheist t-shirts in his house.
(11-01-2017 02:06 AM)RocketSurgeon76 Wrote:  I wasn't just thinking of respect for the man's home, by the way, though I concur with Anjele.

I'm Cajun, and family is extremely important to us. I speak also as someone who knows all too well what it means to get too contentious with family members about religion-- my own siblings won't speak to me because I am an open atheist. It pains me every time I think of this rift, torn in my family nearly 20 years ago, which they still refuse to heal. But if they do invite me to their homes, again, I will not try to offend them, even if it means swallowing my tongue and "playing nice".

What I was thinking was that this relative, playing host so often as he does, will be someone that members of the family will want to see at the same time they see you, when there is occasion for the broader family to gather. These are not random strangers about whom we are speaking, but people who live in a circle of love. So what that he is a bigot? All he's asking is that he not have his religion disrespected openly in his home by wearing shirts like Banjos (which in any other context is fucking awesome). That's why I brought up the racist speech aspect. I have a couple of family members who are openly racist, and we have asked them not to speak that way when we gather. We still love them, and we still want them there-- as long as they are respectful of the gathering environment and the wishes of the family member hosting the event.

Therefore, I do not think "fuck him!" is a viable answer. Absenting yourself from this would harm people who do love you as you are. Being present and "in his face" about the atheism thing, and thereby causing strife (even if he is equally at fault, as he is), would harm them as well. The no-harm solution is to just swallow your pride for a bit and wear something less offensive... I actually like the suggestion of a The Thinking Atheist™ teeshirt, which isn't so obvious it will cause him to get all up in arms. Win-win.

In the same paragraph where you say you're Cajun and family is extremely important to "us" you tell us you have siblings who won't talk to you because you're an atheist. Doesn't sound that important to me. No bigot deserves my company. If my family can't see that, then they don't either.

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11-01-2017, 10:40 AM (This post was last modified: 11-01-2017 10:44 AM by jennybee.)
RE: Relative says I can't wear atheist t-shirts in his house.
(11-01-2017 08:25 AM)WillHopp Wrote:  
(11-01-2017 02:06 AM)RocketSurgeon76 Wrote:  I wasn't just thinking of respect for the man's home, by the way, though I concur with Anjele.

I'm Cajun, and family is extremely important to us. I speak also as someone who knows all too well what it means to get too contentious with family members about religion-- my own siblings won't speak to me because I am an open atheist. It pains me every time I think of this rift, torn in my family nearly 20 years ago, which they still refuse to heal. But if they do invite me to their homes, again, I will not try to offend them, even if it means swallowing my tongue and "playing nice".

What I was thinking was that this relative, playing host so often as he does, will be someone that members of the family will want to see at the same time they see you, when there is occasion for the broader family to gather. These are not random strangers about whom we are speaking, but people who live in a circle of love. So what that he is a bigot? All he's asking is that he not have his religion disrespected openly in his home by wearing shirts like Banjos (which in any other context is fucking awesome). That's why I brought up the racist speech aspect. I have a couple of family members who are openly racist, and we have asked them not to speak that way when we gather. We still love them, and we still want them there-- as long as they are respectful of the gathering environment and the wishes of the family member hosting the event.

Therefore, I do not think "fuck him!" is a viable answer. Absenting yourself from this would harm people who do love you as you are. Being present and "in his face" about the atheism thing, and thereby causing strife (even if he is equally at fault, as he is), would harm them as well. The no-harm solution is to just swallow your pride for a bit and wear something less offensive... I actually like the suggestion of a The Thinking Atheist™ teeshirt, which isn't so obvious it will cause him to get all up in arms. Win-win.

In the same paragraph where you say you're Cajun and family is extremely important to "us" you tell us you have siblings who won't talk to you because you're an atheist. Doesn't sound that important to me. No bigot deserves my company. If my family can't see that, then they don't either.

I hear what you are saying about bigotry towards atheism, and they definitely are being that way. However, many Christians are brainwashed by the church to believe that atheists are evil, of the devil, and without morals. I can understand the fear that goes with all of that as an X-Christian. For example, if you are a Christian who believes that an atheist goes against all that is holy and could potentially piss off the magical *and powerful* deity who watches over you, thereby, giving you some really bad Juju, I get the fear.

In my Christian days, I personally would not have told someone what to wear, but to be honest, their presence would have made me extremely uncomfortable. So to me, the OP's (and possibly Rocketsurgeon's) situation is more about fear of God/Hell and less about bigotry--although bigotry is certainly a result of said behavior.

As with any bigotry or belief system, attitudes can change due to positive experiences with people who are different. I think coming from a place of love and respect in someone's home, and not wearing something at their request, gives that person a positive experience toward someone who is an atheist. And if nothing else, shows other family members that you are being the bigger person, someone who cares more about spending time with family than creating rifts. Coming from a point of fuck you has the potential to reinforce stereotypes about atheists.

I still have a lot of Christian friends and come in contact with the Christian community quite regularly. I know my atheism makes some of them uncomfortable and I understand it. They were taught by the church to fear people like me. I enjoy showing them that I'm not a monster and I care about the same things they care about and can help others just because and I don't need a God to give me impetus to do it. I love changing Christians minds about atheists through my actions and behavior. I find they are much more receptive to it and when one of them tells me that they didn't realize atheists were like me, I take that as a compliment and as another brick kicked out from the foundation of the church.

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11-01-2017, 12:01 PM
RE: Relative says I can't wear atheist t-shirts in his house.
(11-01-2017 02:42 AM)Banjo Wrote:  Why is this in PIAS?

It seems to me more to suit the Theism Atheism forum?

At least that's how we all seem to be responding.

Fair point.

There's been a lot of this recently where the 'safe-zones' have turned into general discussion.

The most noticeable being the thread that was moved from the intro section because we simply couldn't keep up with all the not-so-pleasantries. And, of course, the posts we've removed from the Boxing Ring.

I'll leave this one in PI&S because it's obvious from the OP that it is a personal issue for them and I'll use this as an excuse to offer a clarification for new members.

Nearly all threads are for open interaction - many-to-many discussion.
Exceptions are:
The Boxing Ring - one-to-one - strictly observed.
The Introduction section - generally (kinda, sorta) one-to-many - politely.
This PI&S section - one-to-many - supportively.

No problem with referencing previous posts if still addressing the original issue. If you want to extend the topic or challenge someone else's views, please start a new thread.

Cheers


... this is, of course, assuming that the general view is still that these moderated sections should be maintained.

And having said that, WillHopp makes a valid point regarding personal integrity, so may I suggest a compromise...

@RWulfgar,
Before you go next time (shirtless), do some ground work and get some family members (probably the younger ones) to think of some jokes about being scared of clothing.

Your objective is to get expressions like "Your hat offends me" or "Oh boy, those are the most offensive socks I've ever seen" to become family catch-phrases.

Revenge is a dish ... Wink

... best served at family gatherings.

Big Grin

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11-01-2017, 01:52 PM
RE: Relative says I can't wear atheist t-shirts in his house.
Yeah, it's a shirt, but it's what the shirt stands for. And I have to disagree with Jenny a bit because what the uncle is actually saying is I don't like what you are and the shirt pisses me off. If it were that he was afraid of our OP and thinks his relationship with a heathen might send him to hell, then the shirt isn't the problem, it's his nephew. It's just really sad.

I hope you call him and talk it out and find out the real problem.

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11-01-2017, 01:57 PM (This post was last modified: 11-01-2017 02:18 PM by Shai Hulud.)
RE: Relative says I can't wear atheist t-shirts in his house.
Uncle sounds like a dick, just my two cents. Drinking Beverage That said, with RS, Jenny, and Anjele, opinion wise.

(10-01-2017 05:46 PM)TheGulegon Wrote:  Get one of ours, and pretend it's from some space movie Tongue

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For those who like this idea, and don't know if you do OP, my cousin's Baptist minister husband didn't know the TTA symbol was atheist on my travel mug when he visited my office once while passing through this state.

Need to think of a witty signature.
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11-01-2017, 02:28 PM
RE: Relative says I can't wear atheist t-shirts in his house.
(10-01-2017 11:40 AM)RWulfgar Wrote:  I have a relative who is telling me he's so offended by my atheist t-shirt that I'm not allowed to wear it in his home anymore, or any other kind of atheist t-shirt.

While he has the right to ban me from his property for any reason, I guess, then that will mean I'll have to give up going there for family get-togethers like 4th of July, Halloween, Thanksgiving, Easter, etc., because I refuse to let him be my fashion police and tell me what I can and can't wear. [...]

Seriously? All this drama over a lousy T-shirt?

He's not banning you, per se, from his property. He's banning the T-shirt and its inherent anti-Christian message. Which is fair enough considering he's apparently a devout Christian, and it's his home. How would you respond if he were to visit your home wearing a T-shirt that said "Christianity Is The Only Way"? I'm almost positive you'd have something to say about it—I know I would.

It seems that you're happy to cause all this disruption and disown your family simply, apparently, to make some sort of relatively inconsequential ethical point. As some of the other guys have said, why don't you just grin and bear it for the few hours you're at his place occasionally. Is it all that difficult to wear another plain or non-atheist T-shirt, and avoid all these ructions? I get the distinct impression that you're being deliberately confrontational with this for some reason or other which I can't understand.

There are times when discretion is the better part of valour, and IMHO this is one of those times.

—Good luck.

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11-01-2017, 02:32 PM
RE: Relative says I can't wear atheist t-shirts in his house.
My family comes over with crosses around their necks that almost literally could have carried Jesus on them, if he existed. I don't say anything. Everyone is free to believe what they want and wear what they want. This guy clearly has issues. If you see your family at other gatherings, then screw him.

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11-01-2017, 06:14 PM
RE: Relative says I can't wear atheist t-shirts in his house.
(11-01-2017 02:28 PM)SYZ Wrote:  He's not banning you, per se, from his property. He's banning the T-shirt and its inherent anti-Christian message.

Hmmmm, I wonder.....

Wearing the shirt over there seems to have been a challenge.

The situation seems as morondog described earlier.

NOTE: Member, Tomasia uses this site to slander other individuals. He then later proclaims it a joke, but not in public.
I will call him a liar and a dog here and now.
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