Relative says I can't wear atheist t-shirts in his house.
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11-01-2017, 06:28 PM
RE: Relative says I can't wear atheist t-shirts in his house.
(11-01-2017 02:14 AM)Banjo Wrote:  Fuck them both, actually.

Kinda like this, Banjo? Yes

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Shakespeare's Comedy of Errors.... on Donald J. Trump:

He is deformed, crooked, old, and sere,
Ill-fac’d, worse bodied, shapeless every where;
Vicious, ungentle, foolish, blunt, unkind,
Stigmatical in making, worse in mind.
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11-01-2017, 06:31 PM (This post was last modified: 11-01-2017 06:37 PM by RocketSurgeon76.)
RE: Relative says I can't wear atheist t-shirts in his house.
(11-01-2017 08:25 AM)WillHopp Wrote:  In the same paragraph where you say you're Cajun and family is extremely important to "us" you tell us you have siblings who won't talk to you because you're an atheist. Doesn't sound that important to me. No bigot deserves my company. If my family can't see that, then they don't either.

Technically, I'm half-Cajun. My folks met at Louisiana Tech University. My father is not Cajun, and my mother converted to his fundamentalist Southern Baptist faith. However, at the family gatherings (which the Cajun half of my family does frequently, but not the Floridia-area Baptist side), 99% of the people there are Catholics. To them, the extended family is paramount, and they are not only sad that my mom converted but they give her a fair amount of grief for moving away for most of her life, with dad's job, even though she moved back.

Though my parents and I reconciled after the rift, my siblings and I did not. They attend few of the Cajun family gatherings, for a similar reason, even though both of them live in south Louisiana (or "Cajun country"). We all wish they'd drop some of their walls and just participate with everyone else, but it's difficult to reason with extremists.

For most people, atheists who say "fuck them" when asked to respect the common religious sentiments (even if irrational ones) of their extended families are seen in the same way we all see my Southern Baptist fundamentalist siblings. If they showed up at family events with shirts saying "the Pope is the Anti-Christ", they'd be asked to leave, and if they said "screw you guys", they'd become the badguys.

Edit to Add: I am not trying to be contentious in a PI&S thread... I'm hoping that the OP sees my perspective on family views/beliefs, and gains a bit of insight into why I think it's unwise to challenge the beliefs of the host of a family gathering, even if in any other context I would be 100% behind her in doing so.

"Theology made no provision for evolution. The biblical authors had missed the most important revelation of all! Could it be that they were not really privy to the thoughts of God?" - E. O. Wilson
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11-01-2017, 07:32 PM
RE: Relative says I can't wear atheist t-shirts in his house.
RWulfgar, do you already refrain from using dirty words like, "fuck," "shit," and "tittynipples" when you're around him? It's the same thing.

Just do whatever is in the best interest of the relationship that you want to have with him. If your desired relationship status is "meh, don't give a fuck about being around him" then feel free to follow Banjo's advice. Just keep your own end goal in mind.

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11-01-2017, 10:28 PM
RE: Relative says I can't wear atheist t-shirts in his house.
Why not just wear body paint and call it a day Tongue
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11-01-2017, 10:55 PM
RE: Relative says I can't wear atheist t-shirts in his house.
(10-01-2017 04:50 PM)Paleophyte Wrote:  As others have said, pick your battles. I'd let it slide since it's pretty clear who has the problem here. That and I don't own an atheist t-shirt.

Conversely, there's always

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or

[Image: man-bikini-11.jpg]

Heart
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12-01-2017, 04:10 PM (This post was last modified: 12-01-2017 04:30 PM by dirtstar.)
RE: Relative says I can't wear atheist t-shirts in his house.
(10-01-2017 11:40 AM)RWulfgar Wrote:  I have a relative who is telling me he's so offended by my atheist t-shirt that I'm not allowed to wear it in his home anymore, or any other kind of atheist t-shirt.

While he has the right to ban me from his property for any reason, I guess, then that will mean I'll have to give up going there for family get-togethers like 4th of July, Halloween, Thanksgiving, Easter, etc., because I refuse to let him be my fashion police and tell me what I can and can't wear.

While I'm ok with not going there anymore for family get-togethers, I believe that will cause a major family uproar. I'm ok with that, too, but it's sad this will be a big hardship on everyone. So to stave that off without knuckling under to his bullying... what is a logical argument I can make that will make my relative understand that being the fashion police is not a good idea?

Should I wear a full burqua next time I'm over there, to take his policing to an absurd conclusion and make him see where his idea leads? Because really, if I let him tell me I can't wear specific shirts, why don't I just let him rummage through my closet and point out all other articles of clothing that offend him? Why don't I let him tell me what hairstyle I should wear, that I can't get a tattoo that's not his cup of tea, you see where this leads?

Now, again, he is only saying I can't wear offensive shirts (so far it's shirts, tomorrow it may be pants, skirts, socks, hats) IN HIS HOME. I can abide by his commandment and never set foot in his home again, or I can try to make him see that living in a free society, a democracy, is a good thing. He wants me to respect his Christian beliefs, but he doesn't want to respect my atheism. Does one of our stances trump the other? If so, whose? What is the argument that will get through to this guy?

I know I am WAY late to the party here but huh after reading this I almost lost it. Two short words ending with him is all that needs to be said but let me lay out an effective response. He may or may not understand fully the pandora's box he opened but you seem to get it. He is controlling you and also everyone else by setting this boundary and it is your job to call him out on it. Unfortunately it is a battle that is going to take place publicly so you have to be aware of actions. IMO for this reason you have to be tactful and respectful but that doesn't mean you can't be dirty and in this case dirt is what is needed.

Here's what you do. You "forgot" you had the shirt on or that you "already had it on" before realizing at the last moment upon arrival. This way you get to stand there and watch him as he either chooses to be the biggest ass on the planet and asks you to leave his property thus effectively placing every witness to it firmly on your side with his bigotry in full display or swallows his arrogant pride and allows you in for the event. CHECK MATE.

And repeat this like every other trip until he's a good boy.
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12-01-2017, 04:21 PM
RE: Relative says I can't wear atheist t-shirts in his house.
Wear a toga.

I once told a young woman at a party my name was Hannibal and how I defeated the Romans. She was listening seriously, as was my brother. He finally burst into laughter and dragged me away. Smile

Maybe get a T shirt made up stating how you have been cleansed through a Taurobolium. He can't complain about that. Wink

NOTE: Member, Tomasia uses this site to slander other individuals. He then later proclaims it a joke, but not in public.
I will call him a liar and a dog here and now.
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12-01-2017, 05:33 PM
RE: Relative says I can't wear atheist t-shirts in his house.
(10-01-2017 11:10 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  
(10-01-2017 10:45 PM)WillHopp Wrote:  How is this NOT a battle worth fighting? It's his very belief, personality, worldview and wardrobe that is being belittled, bigoted and abused ...

To be honest, none of that would particularly bother me so I'd abide by his wishes and just show up at his house wearing only my fundoshi next time. I guess I could have Manly stitch this into it if I was feeling polite.

[Image: ixoye_zpsevdsojgp.gif]

That reminds me, I saw his on a car yesterday:

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Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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13-01-2017, 11:07 AM
RE: Relative says I can't wear atheist t-shirts in his house.
(12-01-2017 04:10 PM)dirtstar Wrote:  He is controlling you and also everyone else by setting this boundary and it is your job to call him out on it.

I'm sorry, but I'd have to disagree with these claims. He is not "controlling" anybody, least of all the OP. He simply has the rightful expectation that visitors to his home respect his morals and ethical perspective. And that includes somebody—such as the OP—not wearing a deliberately inflammatory T-shirt, and knowing in advance that this is more than likely to have the negative result it has.

(12-01-2017 04:10 PM)dirtstar Wrote:  Unfortunately it is a battle that is going to take place publicly so you have to be aware of actions. IMO for this reason you have to be tactful and respectful but that doesn't mean you can't be dirty and in this case dirt is what is needed.

There's no need for any "battle". What would the OP have to fight about? What if the OP's Christian relative wore a T-shirt like this to his home...


[Image: the-way-mens-christian-t-shirt-Jesus.jpg]

(12-01-2017 04:10 PM)dirtstar Wrote:  Here's what you do. You "forgot" you had the shirt on or that you "already had it on" before realizing at the last moment upon arrival.

Nope. This idea is pointless and willfully confrontational—and rather childish. Just how many times can you "forget" what shirt you're wearing whenever you visit him—assuming you actually enjoy your family's company?

(12-01-2017 04:10 PM)dirtstar Wrote:  This way you get to stand there and watch him as he either chooses to be the biggest ass on the planet and asks you to leave his property thus effectively placing every witness to it firmly on your side with his bigotry in full display or swallows his arrogant pride and allows you in for the event. CHECK MATE. And repeat this like every other trip until he's a good boy.

So you see it as perfectly acceptable for a theist relative being aggressed against in order to force him into at least nominally accepting an atheist's point of view and ethical outlook? Sorry mate, but in the eyes of your family, it's gonna be you that looks like the asshole here. And what you're suggesting is certainly not the way to—just maybe—get one's Christian family members to see one's atheistic point of view, and understand one's beliefs a little more.

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14-01-2017, 12:37 AM
RE: Relative says I can't wear atheist t-shirts in his house.
Well I don't think it's a major issue if someone wore the above teeshirt to an atheist's house; we're not usually the types who care what others think, religiously, at least not to the point of getting hostile about it.

But I certainly agree that it's needlessly confrontational, and in a way that will only serve to make all the less-fundie members of the family (who are likely Christian, at least nominally) think that atheists are aggressive assholes with no respect for others. It will promote the message being pumped at them from the pulpit about us.

Their entire religion is based on the notion of taking offense (that's what a "sin" is: that-which-offends-us... er, I mean which-offends-God), so if you play the role of self-righteous, arrogant, disrespectful heathen, it just plays into the hands of those trying to manipulate the Christian herd, including him.

On the other hand, a less-aggressive method may well serve to show the moderates in the family that he is the one being a douchebag, and you're the one just trying to be left alone to believe as your conscience dictates. At that point, everything he does to try to suppress you will just reflect poorly on him-- and might well serve to get some of the other family members to think, "Do I really want to be on the side of this religious bigot?"

I would, however, recommend memorizing some prayers from other recognized religions, preferably Islamic ones (their "evil religion du jour), as it has been my experience that going "low key" forces the fundamentalist member to initiate conflict by requesting that everyone at the table hold hands for prayer ("are you refusing to even hold your family's hands, now?") and/or recite the prayer yourself. Rather than refusing, eagerly begin with:

"In the name of Allah, the Most Gracious, the most Merciful, and with the blessings of Allah, we eat this meal."

Big Grin

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