Religion Requires Faith but NOT Evidance??
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01-06-2011, 11:48 AM
Religion Requires Faith but NOT Evidance??
Hello everone,
I wanna ask you guys a question! Someone on Youtube created a clip (i don't remember its name) and addressed the question or claim that religion does not require evidence, and all you need is faith. So here is his argument

"It is funny that people say belief in God is just based on faith and no evidence is required for that. "I just have faith in God" is what people keep saying without even thinking! BUT if they are asked to show evidence for their belief they point to their "holy" books, OR they show quotes from their "holy" books!!! They cite them!!!! THAT means they believe in God because of evidence!!! and THAT... is not Faith!!! That's belief in evidence!!! corrupt evidence!!! An illusion of you own creation!"

"Religion involves surrendering your mind to the principles of another!!! NO there is no religion to say: "you question everything, be skeptic about everything."!!! IT is about promising the unfalsifiable!!! "It can not be explained" said the religious person!!!"
IF it can't be explained, then what is it??? it isn't even a piece of knowledge!!!! That's not enlightenment!!! it is the enlightenment of ignorance, and stupidity!!!"


Now, what do you guys think about this?
He has a point right? Cause religious people say you don't need evidence but they still use "evidence" to support their claims!
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01-06-2011, 11:54 AM
 
RE: Religion Requires Faith but NOT Evidance??
I was writing a reply but then I found this pic on the net. It basically sums up what I wanted to say.

[Image: religion1.jpg]

Religion is by definition a fallacy. Undecided
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01-06-2011, 01:47 PM
RE: Religion Requires Faith but NOT Evidance??
The whole new atheist movement takes the hypothesis of god(in a theistic sense) into question and puts it under the scrutiny of the scientific method - it failed.
Saying you need just faith for religion may sound like a good argument but it doesn't validate the belief in question.
You could just as easily believe in the easter bunny or santa.

What one believes has no bearing on reality no matter how honestly they believe it. I honestly believed in santa as a child , does that make santa real ?
What the "faith" component of religion does is glorify being naive.

Atheism is a religion like OFF is a TV channel !!!

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01-06-2011, 01:57 PM
RE: Religion Requires Faith but NOT Evidance??
(01-06-2011 11:48 AM)godofskeptic Wrote:  Now, what do you guys think about this?
He has a point right? Cause religious people say you don't need evidence but they still use "evidence" to support their claims!
It's not clear to me where.. but i think you have a semantic issue somewhere...

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Disclaimer: Don’t mix the personal opinion above with the absolute and objective truth. Remember to think for yourself. Thank you.
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01-06-2011, 03:25 PM
RE: Religion Requires Faith but NOT Evidance??
(01-06-2011 01:47 PM)gaglamesh731 Wrote:  The whole new atheist movement takes the hypothesis of god(in a theistic sense) into question and puts it under the scrutiny of the scientific method - it failed.
Saying you need just faith for religion may sound like a good argument but it doesn't validate the belief in question.
You could just as easily believe in the easter bunny or santa.

What one believes has no bearing on reality no matter how honestly they believe it. I honestly believed in santa as a child , does that make santa real ?
What the "faith" component of religion does is glorify being naive.

I totally agree! having faith in something does not prove anything!
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01-06-2011, 05:15 PM
RE: Religion Requires Faith but NOT Evidance??
Faith is just as much about belief in the absence of evidence as it is firm belief even in the presence of evidence to the contrary.
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01-06-2011, 05:30 PM
RE: Religion Requires Faith but NOT Evidance??
I totally agree. All humans base their vision of how the universe is built and works based on some sort of evidence. The question really boils down to the quality of the evidence used to make the assessment of reality. Honestly requires evidence to be repeatable, testable and falsifiable, virtually no religious claims (at least none I've ever seen) fit that criteria.

“There is no sin except stupidity.” Oscar Wilde
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01-06-2011, 05:34 PM
RE: Religion Requires Faith but NOT Evidance??
(01-06-2011 05:30 PM)nontheocrat Wrote:  I totally agree. All humans base their vision of how the universe is built and works based on some sort of evidence. The question really boils down to the quality of the evidence used to make the assessment of reality. Honestly requires evidence to be repeatable, testable and falsifiable, virtually no religious claims (at least none I've ever seen) fit that criteria.

Exactly. Every single piece of evidence that theists base their beliefs on are basically fallacies and misunderstandings.
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07-06-2011, 05:31 PM
 
RE: Religion Requires Faith but NOT Evidance??
(01-06-2011 11:48 AM)godofskeptic Wrote:  Hello everone,
I wanna ask you guys a question! Someone on Youtube created a clip (i don't remember its name) and addressed the question or claim that religion does not require evidence, and all you need is faith. So here is his argument

"It is funny that people say belief in God is just based on faith and no evidence is required for that. "I just have faith in God" is what people keep saying without even thinking! BUT if they are asked to show evidence for their belief they point to their "holy" books, OR they show quotes from their "holy" books!!! They cite them!!!! THAT means they believe in God because of evidence!!! and THAT... is not Faith!!! That's belief in evidence!!! corrupt evidence!!! An illusion of you own creation!"

"Religion involves surrendering your mind to the principles of another!!! NO there is no religion to say: "you question everything, be skeptic about everything."!!! IT is about promising the unfalsifiable!!! "It can not be explained" said the religious person!!!"
IF it can't be explained, then what is it??? it isn't even a piece of knowledge!!!! That's not enlightenment!!! it is the enlightenment of ignorance, and stupidity!!!"


Now, what do you guys think about this?
He has a point right? Cause religious people say you don't need evidence but they still use "evidence" to support their claims!


godofskeptic,

I seriously shook my head and let out a sigh when I read your post. I could not agree more with your reason for frustration, and completely agree. I only recently came to the conclusion that I had to once and for all decide how strong I was... religiously. I sat down and read the bible from page 1, and holy crap was I shocked. Long story short I read the bible, researched theist websites and atheist websites alike. After a few days I had to ask a friend of mine, who claims to have read the bible several times, about my concerns and smacked right into what you described.

Research and free education seems to be the enemy of religion for obvious reasons. The big illogical circle of faith and the bible being evidence for a God is the end of any conversation with a theist. He told me to read it.. I said, " I have been reading it.. that's why I pose my questions." He said," You haven't REALLY read it." I said," Uhh... I did... and it was one ridiculous account after the next full of contradiction upon contradiction. I don't know how I can believe any of that." He said," You weren't reading it properly. You have to accept Jesus and God and trust in them with all your heart. You have to take it in and pray so that they can read it with you. When you don't understand something you need to stop reading and pray for God to help you understand and seek help from someone that can help you understand the passages." At this point I realized something very important and had to interrupt and ask," So... I have to believe in the existence of Jesus and God. Believe that he is my lord and savior with all my heart and what is said in the bible is true. BEFORE I read it? How does that make any sense? And, if that fails to make sense I have to seek help from someone that is trained to interpret what is being said? Those passages seem pretty straight forward..."

Basically... it got to what you said. God exists because the bible says it and the bible is true because God made it so. You just have to have faith in the face of absolutely no evidence or any logical reasoning. Otherwise you burn in HELL.

Sigh....

BTW, by free education I meant - the freedom to question and look at the facts for yourself.
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