Religion and choice
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05-03-2017, 01:56 PM (This post was last modified: 05-03-2017 02:01 PM by Alla.)
RE: Religion and choice
1) If somebody asked me what my religion is all about, I would say it is about this: CTR or Choose The Right
Why?
Because Choosing The Right is ALWAYS the source of true JOY for EVERY man or woman.

My favorite verse in the Book of Mormon is this: "Adam fell that men might be, and men are that they might have JOY".

Each one of us has different sources of joy. But we all have one common source of joy - choosing what is right.

I want to show why I believe it is the truth.

For example, when I see a person whose bag broke and whatever was in the bag fell and scattered on the ground, my FIRST/ INSTANT REACTION is to help this person to pick up the stuff.
Why is it my instinct reaction? It is because I was born good. I am born this way. I am born in image and likeness of my Heavenly Father.
I don't even need to come up with a REASON WHY I want to help this person. It is just my instant reaction. Yes, I am born this way - to CHOOSE what is right, good, kind
Choosing The Right brings JOY to me and to the person whom I help.

But what if after my first/instant reaction I see that the person who needs help is someone I really, really don't like. It is someone who was very rude and unkind to me? What do I do next?
The first thing I do is I am coming up with REASONS why I should NOT help. "
Oh, this person is jerk, this person doesn't deserve my help. This person deserves to suffer."

But I still have a choice. I still can Choose The Right. And when I do it I find that it brings me JOY.


2) My next post will be about this:
Robvalue Wrote:Or in Alla's case, she's happy with it not preventing the shit. It's like a father figure allowing someone to beat you up, when they could simply step in and stop the bullies. The father says, "It's for your own good". Whatever "good" is supposed to come out of this, I assume God could just give you that for free without you having to be beaten up. If not, he's not very powerful really. The means to an end idea works with humans sometimes, because humans are limited in power and resources. It doesn't work when all possibilities are available.

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05-03-2017, 03:07 PM
RE: Religion and choice
Robvalue Wrote:Or in Alla's case, she's happy with it not preventing the shit.
I am not happy if God doesn't prevent the shit. I want Him to prevent the shit. This is MY will.
Christ also asked His Father if it was possible to avoid bitter cup. Nobody likes to suffer.
May be only very sick people like to suffer.
But I understand that it is a necessity.
Christ understood why it was necessary for Him to atone/to suffer.
BTW, you don't know some or even many horrible things that were about to happen in your life but God prevented them. I am sure(strongly believe) God did that.

Robvalue Wrote:I assume God could just give you that(good) for free without you having to be beaten up.
May be He could.
There is another verse in the Book of Mormon I like and I believe is true:

"It MUST BE AN OPPOSITION in all things".

So, to CHOOSE the right is the source of true JOY. But when there is NO OPPOSITION it is NOT possible to make a choice between right and wrong and to have JOY from choosing the right.
There is NO OTHER WAY to chose the right, it MUST BE an opposition.

If God made us exalted in the first place:
1)we wouldn't have an opportunity to have JOY from making this right choice - to become exalted.
2)we would never have an opportunity to choose between right and wrong and to have true JOY from choosing the right.
3)we could blame God for taking from us an opportunity to choose between right and wrong and to have JOY from choosing the right. We could blame God for FORCING us to do only good.

Only those who know what good and EVIL is can have FULLNESS of joy. THERE IS NO OTHER WAY.

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06-03-2017, 01:10 AM
RE: Religion and choice
I also try my best to do the right thing. I help people, and it feels good to do so. This is nothing to do with any religion, it's an evolutionary trait.

If you are clear that God didn't make the rules about "how things are", then he can indeed be said to be doing his best. I've always said that a limited God can be defended, whereas an unlimited one can't. I can respect that you appear to be consistent here.

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06-03-2017, 01:12 AM
RE: Religion and choice
The assumption in the initial post is that there is nothing more to religion than theology. But religion includes other things like ethics. Does it make sense to believe that an ethical is true and then not follow it? No. Religion is a broad system that describes how to relate to the world and how to organize a society. So believing in a religion implies changing one's behavior to conform to its principles.
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06-03-2017, 01:18 AM
RE: Religion and choice
I was talking about the worship aspect only. Generally, people adopt all aspects. I'm very aware religions also try and teach ethics. Of course my post wouldn't apply to someone who joined a religion and then didn't worship the boss figure.

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06-03-2017, 01:40 AM
RE: Religion and choice
(06-03-2017 01:18 AM)Robvalue Wrote:  I was talking about the worship aspect only. Generally, people adopt all aspects. I'm very aware religions also try and teach ethics. Of course my post wouldn't apply to someone who joined a religion and then didn't worship the boss figure.

Okay, I will explain to you the purpose of worship.

First there is a mistaken idea in the West that thought determines action, when in fact for most people it is the other way around. For most people, their actions shape their thought patterns.

Humans and most primates are organized into groups around an alpha-male. Subservience is shown to the alpha-male by bowing. In good religions, God takes the role of the alpha-male, and is bowed to as is appropriate. This produces many positive results. First, it encourages humility in the worshipper. And second, this prevents another human from occupying the alpha-male role that God has filled. This is why democracy only arose in societies with an alpha-male god, because only such a system effectively prevents a tyrant from occupying the alpha-male role.
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06-03-2017, 01:43 AM
RE: Religion and choice
Okay. I'm talking from a personal point of view.

So the reason the individual does it is to learn humility? I agree this is a good quality, but I don't think it's necessary to join a religion to develop it. And it's more like servitude or inferiority, rather than humility, as far as I have observed it. Not always, but often.

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06-03-2017, 01:57 AM
RE: Religion and choice
(06-03-2017 01:40 AM)fschmidt Wrote:  Okay, I will explain to you the purpose of worship.

First there is a mistaken idea in the West that thought determines action, when in fact for most people it is the other way around. For most people, their actions shape their thought patterns.

Humans and most primates are organized into groups around an alpha-male. Subservience is shown to the alpha-male by bowing. In good religions, God takes the role of the alpha-male, and is bowed to as is appropriate. This produces many positive results. First, it encourages humility in the worshipper. And second, this prevents another human from occupying the alpha-male role that God has filled. This is why democracy only arose in societies with an alpha-male god, because only such a system effectively prevents a tyrant from occupying the alpha-male role.


Oh, quite right. When I think of how lost good western civilization would be without an Alpha-God, it makes me tear up a bit. We're so fortunate to be descendants of Judeo-Christian values, unlike all of those dirty polytheistic cultures; like the ancient Greeks, Egyptians, and Babylonians. Yes

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06-03-2017, 02:14 AM
RE: Religion and choice
(06-03-2017 01:57 AM)EvolutionKills Wrote:  Oh, quite right. When I think of how lost good western civilization would be without an Alpha-God, it makes me tear up a bit. We're so fortunate to be descendants of Judeo-Christian values, unlike all of those dirty polytheistic cultures; like the ancient Greeks, Egyptians, and Babylonians. Yes

You clearly didn't understand what I said because the good polytheistic cultures had good strong patriarchal alpha-males gods. But yes, western civilization is now lost without any alpha-male gods, so it is suffering from the terminal cultural illnesses of liberalism and feminism.
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06-03-2017, 02:17 AM
RE: Religion and choice
(06-03-2017 02:14 AM)fschmidt Wrote:  
(06-03-2017 01:57 AM)EvolutionKills Wrote:  Oh, quite right. When I think of how lost good western civilization would be without an Alpha-God, it makes me tear up a bit. We're so fortunate to be descendants of Judeo-Christian values, unlike all of those dirty polytheistic cultures; like the ancient Greeks, Egyptians, and Babylonians. Yes

You clearly didn't understand what I said because the good polytheistic cultures had good strong patriarchal alpha-males gods. But yes, western civilization is now lost without any alpha-male gods, so it is suffering from the terminal cultural illnesses of liberalism and feminism.

Ah, I see. So polytheism isn't the problem then? The problem is not picking a favorite Alpha-Male, and elevating them above all others? Consider

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